Heather Newman: Hello everyone. Here we are again for another episode of the Mavens Do It Better podcast where we interview extraordinary experts who bring a light to our world. We talk to them about what tech they're using, how they promote their personal brands, and a little bit about origin story. Today I am very excited to let you all know that it is our one year anniversary. So, today is Halloween and we launched last year, uh, during Halloween, uh, from New Orleans. And so we thought in order to celebrate that we would do a little podcast about what has been going on for the past year, what technology we use, and also a little bit about the WerkIt 2019 podcast festival that we attended in Los Angeles at the ACE hotel. So my special guest today is none other than Annelise Sexton, who is the producer of the Mavens Do It Better podcast. Hello. Hi Annelise. How are you doing today?
Annelise Sexton: I am doing pretty good. It's weird being on the other end of a podcast.
Heather Newman: Yeah. So she, uh, obviously takes care of, uh, the whole back end or maybe not obviously to you, but obviously to me she does. And so she, uh, works on all the audio and we do all the, you know, social media and all of that stuff together. So, um, Annelise was down here in LA with me and we went to that wonderful festival. And Annelise, where are you coming to us today from?
Annelise Sexton: I'm up in the North Bay in Alameda, California. A little Island off of Oakland.
Heather Newman: Yup. Annelise, do you want to just give it a little bit more of an introduction to who you are and what you do for both Creative Maven and Mavens Do It Better?
Annelise Sexton: Uh, yeah. So, um, I am a fine art major turned digital marketer. Um, I, for Maven and mavens do it better. I've been working with Heather for a number of years, started out just doing social media, moved on to the full gamut of digital marketing and graphic design and just kind of helping get her voice out there and her companies out there. Uh, yeah, just kinda, I think my title now is digital marketing strategist.
Heather Newman: Yes. It is. Officially. Um, for sure. Yeah. And don't let her fool ya, Annelise pulls all of the levers and buttons behind the scenes and I couldn't do things without her. So you are like gold my friend.
Annelise Sexton: Thank you very much.
Heather Newman: Awesome. So, uh, so yeah, so we went to that WerkIT podcast festival. Um, I think you and I both came out of that super jazzed and just excited and you want to give everybody a little flavor of what you felt coming out of it?
Annelise Sexton: Well, the first bit was it was a women's, uh, podcasting festival and you know, our current situation socially and politically, it's like, it was really kind of amazing, empowering to hear everyone's different story and how all these people are just going out there and telling their story and not getting stopped, you know, by, you know, whatever they call it, the glass ceiling and all of that. So it was really that community that kind of like we're, you know, strong, independent and you're going to hear our voices. And I just really appreciated that. I think another thing was like understanding the podcast industry more because you know, as you know, we both got into this, you know, kind of totally groms and just jumped in and if you started listening to us at the beginning to now it's, it's changed quite a bit. So just I think getting more tactical and more, I dunno, like industry specific feedback from people doing different things in the podcast world.
Heather Newman: Absolutely. Yeah. The WerkIt festival was for women and non-binary and it was lovely. I mean there were I think 600, over 600 people attending and they've had over 5,000 attend the podcast festival has been going on for five years. And yeah, and I agree with you completely. It was just to be surrounded in the company of just amazing women telling their stories and um, you know, the, some of the stats that were just amazing were the, you know, there's 700,000 podcasts happening right now and, and more coming online every day. It kinda, I think it used to be right, that you would have a blog and yeah, I think now it's, you know, people are turning to podcasts and what's great about that is that, you know, it's, you know, it also minimizes screen time.
Annelise Sexton: Totally. Well, I mean, and like the thing that I really love about listening to podcasts and like is that it is, it's almost like a silent disco because you put your headphones in and you hear the, whoever's talking, you hear their voice and it's like, it's very intimate to me. Whereas like listening on the radio, it's, you know, some, you know, they, it's, it's a different situation. Um, and that's what I appreciate about the podcast cause I really, I just like totally get more out of it information wise, than I would do read in an article or watching a video cause I don't get distracted.
Heather Newman: Yeah, I agree. And you know, it's sort of, podcasts seems to me, just like you're saying, it's kind of, a lot of times, you know, you're usually alone, right. And, um, maybe while you're in your car or you're commuting or like lying in bed at night, you know what I mean? Like I listen to podcasts, you know, so it is fairly intimate and you do feel a different connection, I think to the people you're listening to, especially, you know, people just, you get to know them I think a little bit more as well. You know, you get to know that. Like they'll throw in, uh, a random fact or you know, a story of their life or whatever in the middle of it. And you really get a, get a sort of that intimate, deep look into somebody's life that you don't normally get, you know, from reading it off the page. So, yeah. And another interesting fact was that, um, there were, uh, it was, I believe it's 29 million episodes, um, in this last year and that 53% of all of the podcasts listened to in the last six months were being listened to by women. Um, just the facts and figures that were coming out from this just were astounding. One. And, and then there's just the amazing people that were part of the festival, um, from, you know, the opening panel with, you know, people in the industry who are producers and who have been doing this a really long time. You know, podcasts have been around. I don't, I'm trying to figure, I'm trying to remember what was the first podcast.
Annelise Sexton: I, I, I think that, I mean it was really came, I mean popular culture kind of grabbed onto it with Serial, I think was first that kind of made it.
Heather Newman: I agree
Annelise Sexton: to a larger audience, but yeah, it's definitely, it's a new media for sure. And that was one of the big talking points from these, you know, especially the opening panel, like this is new and this is, you know, we make it what we want to want it to be.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. It was, um, so the, the, one of the figures was that it's been about 15 years, believe it or not. Um, but really the last five have been the, you know, surge of podcasts in the market. And, yeah, it was really interesting to hear from, you know, there's, you know, uh, lots of podcasts like Serial of course, and what is it, death, sex and money. And there's some that have been around, you know, a long time, um, that just have millions of listeners, you know, millions of downloads. Um, and I think, you know, what was cool about the event, so many things, but, um, we had, there was a main stage and then there was a, um, another, uh, track that you could go to. And there was, um, a couple, it was just, you know, some of the titles where, you know, podcasting for disability justice, how to make your podcast more accessible. Um, internet is for pods, web strategy for audience growth, um, you know, top 10 mistakes freelancers make and how to avoid them. I loved that session. I thought that was fantastic and it was not just about podcasting, but it was about how to run your own business as well.
Annelise Sexton: Right. And represent yourself. Yeah,
Heather Newman: absolutely. You know, personal brand comes into play here a great deal. You know, it's, it's, you know, I, I've had people say I want to do a podcast, what do I do? You know? Um, and I, I was it, I think it was nine months that we played around, wasn't it?
Annelise Sexton: I think for the ideation. Yeah, totally. It was kind of, you were like, I want to start a podcast and I'm like, I have no idea what we're doing. Let's do it. We just kind of, I think the first, the first 10 episodes or so, were like just figuring it out technically and then figuring out what we want the show to be.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. You know, Annelise and I work really well digitally and, and also artistically and you know, working with another fine art major, me having a theater major and, you know, being visual and her. So we are, we use Pinterest boards, um, a lot. Uh, it's how we iterated on the logo for Mavens Do It Better. And also for the new Creative Maven logo that came out. So, you know, one of the things we do is, you know, we have an idea, we talk about it. And then my job is to go to Pinterest and start making a board. Um, and I love that you're adamant.
Annelise Sexton: A look book.
Heather Newman: Yeah. Uh, look book. Right. Um, and I think that's been really successful for us. Um, and then we usually, after we're done iterating on something, we usually share them. So our Pinterest boards are up under, under Hedda Newman and you can see those as well. That's kind of fun to how we kind of came up with that. And yeah, I, I saw so many friends doing podcasts and I was like, you know what, I want to do that too. And I did some radio KUKN cooking country and KLOG in Kelso, Washington through a shout out to that wonderful radio station that hired me during college and I did a lot of their PSA work. Um, and so I thought, you know, let's do this. And so I got started off with a zoom, uh, hm one. And so that was the sort of the smaller baby zoom and started out with that. And honestly it was, I was so nervous about just, you know, recording and the wonderful Tracy O'Connell, um, who runs, uh, is the event producer for the European SharePoint Conference, which is coming up in Prague here in December where I'm going to be speaking about diversity inclusion and women in tech. Um, we were at, I believe it was at Ignite I think. And I was like, I'm starting a podcast. You're my first, I'm not sure what I'm doing here, but we'll do it. And that literally is the first one that's up on the Mavens Do It Better site. I dunno. And that one was in an expo hall too. So you had like audio, Oh my God,
Annelise Sexton: Yes, we've definitely created a recording rules list to make the audio engineer not cry.
Heather Newman: Yeah. And you know, some things like, you know, uh, I do a lot of the podcast recordings, I work from home and so, you know, we had some new rules come up, uh, like please don't have the dryer on and buzz in the background. Um, air conditioning units can be exciting. And I also have a squeaky chair that needs some WD 40, you know, so if you're listening, it's, it's, you know, there's lots of people that have very professional studios and they spend lots of money on this stuff and that's great. You know, it's like whatever you could afford and all of that. But honestly, you know, you can start out with one handheld. There's some people that use, you know, their iPhones or smartphones and have apps that they record directly on as well. Um, but I've graduated to a zoom H4N pro. Um, uh, let's let, since we're talking about audio a little bit. Um, will you talk about what we're using, what you're using to deal with the audio on the back end? What, what technology we use?
Annelise Sexton: Uh, yeah, so we started out, uh, per a recommendation from I think someone who had you knew, who does podcasts, to use the, uh, audacity program. And that's a free open source program that, uh, is really good for just like getting a start in editing. Like, I had never edited audio before in my life and someone, we downloaded the app and I'm like, Oh, okay. So it's like video except no pictures. Like I can figure this out. But then you know, now I'm doing some training on Adobe audition cause I think I have a little bit more control and finesse with that program. But definitely it's like a learning process cause you know, figuring out like, okay, is this, you know, stereo or mono or like how are we recording this and all this stuff. But it's like I think we're getting there and every episode I feel like we're getting, I'm, I'm improving myself. I feel like I'm understanding it more. Yeah. I mean I love learning new things and the internet is my favorite thing cause it gives you basically all the knowledge to become semi expert in anything.
Heather Newman: Absolutely. Yeah. And I, and I, and I'm getting better at how I record when I record, you know, always sort of looking at improvements and I'll give a shout out. I'm, I'm, I'm almost certain that it was, and I think it was like three or four people, but it was Andrew Connell and, uh, Chris Johnson who do the MS cloud podcast, Jeremy Thake, who has been recording podcasts for a long time. It was Allister Pugin who was talking to me about, um, their podcast that comes out of South Africa, uh, two guys and SharePoint. And so, yeah, I think all of them at Christian Buckley, I think as well. So all of the, the, a lot of the guys in our industry who have, were really, you know, as far as SharePoint and Microsoft and me being an MVP and all of that, um, they started that way early, you know, like they've been doing it a long time and so they, I got to say, shout out to all you fellows who have been super-duper helpful and always answering questions. I was just on the phone with Jason Himmelstein and, uh, talking to him about, uh, their, uh, bifocal podcast and we were talking about equipment and, um, sharing some ideas, you know, that came out of the WerkIt festival as well. Um, and yeah, it's something that I also do folks is, you know, like I travel around a lot for my job. I get to speak in a lot of awesome places. And so I keep my zoom literally in my backpack with me. Um, and one of the, one of my favorite interviews was with Juan Carlos, who is a flamenco guitarist who's in his eighties, and he lives in Puerto Rico in San Juan. And I happen to be in his restaurant one night, happened to watch him play and happened to have just my mind blown by the stories he was telling while he was speaking. And, um, I asked him if I could podcast with him and he was like, sure, absolutely. Come back tomorrow. End up being, uh, taken downstairs into a basement, which I was like, ah, okay. And, um, and then he was like, actually this is the first bank that was outside, um, you know, the contiguous United States. It was the first bank, um, and it was the bank vault. And so it was a beautiful place to record since it was so cavernous. And, um, I just ended up letting him talk for an hour cause we usually try and keep these to like about a half hour or so. And you know, when he's talking about Salvador Dali and playing at the white house and being on ed Sullivan and just kept saying over and over again that life is a dream. I just, I was like, you can talk as long as you want.
Annelise Sexton: I think you could have done a whole season with him in that bank vault. The audio was the most gorgeous.
Heather Newman: Absolutely. And he's got such a delicious voice, so, um, ah, just yay. Thank you. So it was so great. And so, you know, I keep it on me. Um, and you know, I, I bought all these like microphones and all these cables and all this stuff and honestly when I'm in person, um, I find that the zoom, I can literally turn the record button on and I can set it between us. As long as I'm in a fairly quiet space and the audio is pretty good, you know. Um, for those of you starting out, you know, I've, I've bought some other things, you know, to lock into my computer to record audio and I'm still just getting started with that. Um, uh, we were talking Annelise and I were talking the other day, I'm like, okay, what adapter do we need to get this thing into my surface pro six. Um, so there's a lot of bells and whistles, but I think that you can also be minimal about it and have it, you know, actually be OK and, and um, be, be, uh, be a good audio feed. Um, Hey Annelise, I know there's a few things that came up across, you know, we've had other, we've had listeners reach out and say, Oh, I love the podcast, but, um, I'm trying to think of those things. Uh, one of them was about being able to download it from the website,
Annelise Sexton: Yeah. And just, you know, figuring out like, okay, cause we host our, our podcast is hosted on the Squarespace site. And so not really being familiar with, you know, podcasting in general is like we did at first we didn't have the ability to download up episodes and then some, I think one of your friends recommended said like, I really want to do that because I'm overseas. I don't have a great internet connection. And it's like, and then of course it's like, look, look up SquareSpace help. It was like, Oh yeah, there's a button that you just click. Of course.
Heather Newman: You either turn it on or off or just click the button as they say. Yeah. So that was when I'm also, uh, have had some folks talk about, um, accessibility and you know, the, there's people that um, you know, can't listen. And so, uh, there was, but there were folks that wanted to, to participate and so we made sure that we are doing transcripts of all of the episodes we tell everybody about dealing and doing, working on that and what tech we use?
Annelise Sexton: Uh, so we use Temi. It's, uh, a web app that, um, does, it's like basically 10 cents a minute, AI audio transcription. And, it is. I would say, um, you know, the ones that I tried out, it was the most successful AI one in, uh, getting the correct words of course, and like the big thing from me is differentiate like in the transcript, differentiating between the different voices, different speakers and being able to identify those. And, um, that was, that's my favorite bit. And their editing, uh, interface is like, you can read along as, as it plays and do quick edits. And, uh, I think to me it's, it's my favorite one. And I think having transcripts to your podcast is so important and it's really not that much of an investment time or money wise if you use one of these services.
Heather Newman: I think that's an awesome add. And I think so. And as far as, so we host on Squarespace, so we have a website, uh, www.mavensdoitbetter.com. And so they go up there. Uh, we also, you know, since Annelise is a digital marketing specialist, uh, we, we put everything up on social media too. Um, and so, you know, we have, uh, mavens do it better Facebook page. We have a mavens do it betta, B E T T A on Twitter and on Instagram because mavens do it better as too long for a handle. So we had to shorten it, um, with the betta instead of better. Um, and then, uh, also on Twitter the same. That's also just a tip as far as social media goes, if you can at all possible, have your handles be the same across everything you do. Um, so when you're choosing, yeah, you found that to Annelise, that sometimes you're like trying to find somebody, right?
Annelise Sexton: Yeah. And like, you know what, you're going to get tagged more because people are like at, and they start typing it in and they'll remember your Twitter handle and, but they're on Facebook, so yeah. You know, if it's the same thing, it's gonna show up.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. Um, we also, uh, post up on the Creative Maven YouTube channel. We put all of the, um, podcasts up there as well. Will you talk about that process a little bit about pushing that and what it looks like?
Annelise Sexton: Yeah. So I think like, you know, and they did talk about this at the conference too and I appreciate it as like as like get it out there in as many places and formats as possible. So one of the things that we do is we do create full episodes, um, that have a full episode audio grams that go up on YouTube. So if someone is, you know, prefers YouTube, they can go and listen to it there. Um, we use this app that I absolutely love. It's very fun cause again, I'm a designer visual person, so being able to create something visual out of something that's completely audio I appreciate that. Um, it's called headliner and they let you make little audio grams, which are little animation videos of your selected audio. And you can do it for full episodes or you can do snippets for like social media, like Instagram. You can do like a one minute you put a graphic up and it'll have the audio waveform. It has transcripts that you can set up. Um, yeah, it makes it very easy to kind of, you know, draw people in, in a different way.
Heather Newman: That's super cool. Is that free or is there a charge for that one?
Annelise Sexton: So, we do the free plan cause I love free plans. Um, but since I was an early adopter for them, they're offering me some good stuff. We should talk about that at some point. But yeah, they do a free plan. It's like 10. You can create 10 videos a month I think,
Heather Newman: Which is kind of perfect for us. The speaking of 10 a month, you know, for Mavens Do It Better. We, you know, are either doing four or five depending on the month. Um, we drop weekly on Thursdays and you know, I think in the beginning when I was like, I want to do this weekly, I don't know. What did you think?
Annelise Sexton: Well, I was so new to it I was like, sure, why not? We'll see. Like, I can do anything!
Heather Newman: Yeah. Well and that's your wonderful attitude and I have the same one. So I was like, yeah, let's do it weekly, you know? And, but yeah, I have to say that, you know, it is something that I look forward to that I, it is, it is one of a few things. There's a lot of things in, you know, we do a lot of scheduling, we create content marketing plans and, you know, uh, calendars and all that stuff. And that's something Annelise does not only for, um, Creative Maven and, you know, but we do it for our clients, you know, so she's very involved with all of our clients as well. And so we create a lot of that stuff for people, you know, to get them organized. And one of the things we always say is like, don't boil the ocean. You know, that consistency is more important than volume, you know. Um, and so, you know, I was like, did we just take our own advice or not? I'm not sure, but
Annelise Sexton: well, I think we, you know, like you sometimes you just gotta like jump in and try out what you want to do and like, can you do what you want to do or figure out how to be able to do what you want to do. I don't think we're boiling, if it was like, you know, a two hour episode biweekly, you know, that would be, I would walk away.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, and it's, and it's been really fun. You know, people are like, how do you get your guests? And you know, honestly, again, we were just figuring this out. You know, I knew that I wanted to call it mavens do it better. I've always loved that t-shirt that Madonna wore that it said Italians do it better. And honestly, that's where it came from. Um, and uh, Maven means expert. I got that from the book The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell back in 2006 when I started Creative Maven and, uh, thought it was just such a sexy, cool word and I had already wanted to use the word creative in the title for my business and so put them together and you know, um, it's been, what, 13 years? And so when starting the podcast, I thought, you know what? Yeah, you know, experts do it better because they put in the time and the energy and passion and, and the failures and the, you know, the, the trying to get past things that sometimes are hard. You know, it's like when you are striving to be expert at your field, I think you do it better. So, um, that's kind of where that started. Um, yeah. And the, we, we, we've also made a decision, um, to drop, uh, 10 episodes last year today on Halloween. Um, and I think those were, again, I think we kept everything I did for the nine months and used those 10
Annelise Sexton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. To get up when you first start publishing and get up on iTunes. I believe it is 10, you need to have 10 episodes up there to get listed on the, on their, um, Apple podcasts. So it was several months in the making me full, I got the first, uh, sort of publishing the first episodes.
Heather Newman: Yeah, will you tell everybody I'm a little bit more about the Apple podcasts and then also all the other places we're on and why you chose that? I mean iTunes, I, you know, Apple podcast is sort of the, you know, it's the grand grandparent.
Annelise Sexton: It's the standard,
Heather Newman: Yeah, it's the standard.
Annelise Sexton: And it's basically like a lot of the smaller podcatchers, um, they pull from iTunes, so you don't, once you get up on iTunes, you're going to be in hundreds of other places automatically because they're pulling directly from there. Um, the ones that don't is like Google play and Spotify who, and Pandora where they, um, you know, obviously compete with Apple.
Heather Newman: Right. And we're up on Spotify. How long was that process? How long did that take? Do you remember?
Annelise Sexton: Spotify was pretty quick. They were, I don't like the UI of their podcaster central or whatever they call it, but it was, I think it took, just like from the point of submission, I think we got a response within just a couple of days.
Heather Newman: Okay, cool. And then with Apple podcast as well, it's either five or 10, I can't remember. I think you're right. But it's,
Annelise Sexton: yeah, it's somewhere in there.
Heather Newman: Yeah. And you also had to have a blog post, if I recall correctly. You had to have something written supporting it as well, I believe. Yeah. Um, and how about Stitcher?
Annelise Sexton: Stitcher, yeah. And we put it up there. I think that one, that one's super-fast and they actually have a, make it really, really easy to get your, your, uh, feed up there and to get all of their promotional assets and all that stuff. So that's pretty fun too.
Heather Newman: Yup. And what, what RSS feed do we use?
Annelise Sexton: We, so initially started out with using Squarespace automated, but then for analytics, I switched it over to feed burner from Google. It was just easier for me to pull information from them than from Squarespace analytics, which for podcasts or RSS feeds is, you know, it wasn't, you know,
Heather Newman: Up to snuff. Yeah, yeah. Got it. And folks, you know, anytime you want to hear the like real deal talk about stuff. Annelise. I love how, I'm going to say that, you always are, you tell the truth about all of that stuff and I love it. You know. No, it's, it's a great quality. Um, I also want to talk about analytics. So will you talk about how we've been tracking and changes we've made and things that we're thinking about there.
Annelise Sexton: Yeah. So at first we didn't really do super tracking, like we could pull it in from into Google analytics from the feed burner and all that stuff. But it's, I didn't understand the numbers. I didn't understand the metrics. And you know, so earlier this year, I can't remember when I signed us up for the account that I cannot pronounce. It's B,L ,U , B, R, R. Y. I'm not even gonna try to say that cause it's not going to come out right. But it's like blueberry without a lot of letter, ees. And uh, they had, you know, of course it's a free bank cause I love free internet things. They basically, we could put an episode tracking, uh, link into our Squarespace posting and that would give us a numbers for that episode. And then when we're at the conference that people were, I think someone recommended to Chartable, which we then on the spot signed up for, which is even more inclusive because now they can specify where the traffic is coming from and they can see like Spotify numbers, iTunes or Apple podcast numbers and get really drilled down into what things mean. But it's still, I'm still trying to understand the numbers because with social media it's like, I know what each of these, you know, things mean, but with podcasts like, well what is a download? And if you go and you try to look up what do podcast metrics mean. Every page is going to give you a different answer because it's so new. So it's, it's something that was very hard to nail down and it makes me uncomfortable because it doesn't give you the hard numbers that like social media or email marketing give you. So it's getting there apparently.
Heather Newman: Yeah. It's something everybody asks too, you know, when you say you have a podcast, people are like, how many listeners do you have and how many subscribers do you have and how many bla bla bla. And it is, a note to anybody out there who works on analytics or power BI or other things like that. Like it's a, it's an a little bit of an open market. I think right now if you can pull all that stuff together, cause you know, if it was something like a Google analytics tag that, you know, you taught, you drop into a website. If you could figure out how to like combine it with the sort of top podcasting hosting agencies so that we all as podcasters could actually know those figures. Um, there's a $1 million idea for ya. Um, with the 700,000 podcasts in the world.
Heather Newman: Um, and I think, you know, that was something else, uh, that people talked about at WerkIt was, um, now that podcasts are being viewed by advertisers as a new medium, there's a lot of talk about, um, the consolidation of podcasts, of podcasts that are out there, um, that are popular, um, that are niche and all of that being pulled into other places to get produced. Um, and so, you know, Luminary recently came out, you know, Trevor Noah's on that and a few other people and there's a paywall, similar to medium where there's a paywall and some newspapers as well. Right? So that you can, you know, read so many articles or listened to so many for free or have the free account, but then to get to that premium or prime content, um, you have to pay. And it was interesting, uh, when, do you remember when, uh, when everybody said, who pays for podcasts? how many people raise their hands?
Annelise Sexton: Like none. Like 10 out of 200. Yeah.
Heather Newman: It was kind of interesting and you know, and, and then it was, would you, and you know, I think there were some more hands raised and stuff, but, um, it's interesting thinking about, you know, this potential consolidation, potential paywalls. I dunno. I feel like I've, as we've seen on, you know, many places that, you know, uh, I, I dunno, there are certain things I pay for, like I pay for the New York times and the LA times, you know, um, I don't are there things that you pay for? I'm trying to think.
Annelise Sexton: Oh yeah, yeah. For like Netflix and Hulu and all of, that watch my programs. But, um, but I think for like podcasts, for me it's figuring out the monetization aspect is hard because if, if it all goes, I mean, that's why I love, what I love about Apple podcasts is it's basically like the YouTube for podcasts. It's like anyone can put their podcasts up as long as you know, it doesn't break their terms of use or guidelines. Um, and I love that kind of independent spirit of getting new, a lot of voices. I know like a lot of people are down on YouTube because you know, you got bots and you got people like influencing kids and you know, but I think it just, and there's a lot of fodder, there's a lot of crap out there, but there's also some really amazing things that, you know. I prefer the free, you know, free the YouTube model. It just, keeping those pathways open. Because like I think one of the ladies on one of the panels said that when you go talk to media people about podcasting, it's still a room full of men. Like, so I think, you know, if we're gonna like own this and, and change it, it's kind of a different model maybe. Of monetization.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. Um, yeah, so, you know, folks. So as far as those who, one, first of all, thank you so much for listening. Um, and it's been so fun to talk to people and get feedback and hear comments and, you know, I've, I've, I've gotten some really great ones that were about, you know, my daughter is a Maven and she's awesome and thank you so much. You know, I think we forget sometimes, you know, no matter who you are or what level you are, you know, like families listen and, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's just, it's fun, you know. Um, I think that's been some of the, you know, the joy I've had with this and, and just, you know, connecting with people and, and sharing stories. You know, to me this is all about, I love the origin story part of it. I always ask about that. Um, love asking about what sparks people, you know, what got them to be where they are today, person place or thing or something. And they're always different. That's always the last question. Um, we got some really good feedback too. One of the cool things at WerkIT was that we, um, could sign up for a mentor and to, and to be a mentor. And so I signed up for both. And, um, and we got assigned, um, two mentees who we ended up having lunch with and, um, Nina and Pearl, so shout out to you. That was super fun. And then also, um, uh, we had an amazing conversation, uh, with a woman who is the, uh, LA Times a managing editor, one of them anyway. Um, and she used to be, uh, also the, um, uh, editor in chief. Sorry. That's what I was thinking of. I'm at slate magazine and her name is Julia Turner. And, uh, she was awesome. And you know, always have a mentor, you know, no matter what level you are, we all need that in our lives. I find that my, my father acts as that and many people in the community, my mom, you know, and um, Julia was great and she listened to the podcast, she checked out our stuff and she gave us some really great advice about, you know, she's like, Heather, you're, you know, you’re dynamic person, all of that. And, um, it's, you know, great that you're an interview. There's lots of podcasts though that are of somebody's, somebody dynamic and interesting, you know, uh, interviewing somebody else. There's a lot of those in the world. What makes your podcast different? What makes it special?
Annelise Sexton: I thought that was great advice. I think that was like, huh, cause I, she, I think she was the one who said in the panel that media is habit and figuring out how to make your program a habit and like what, what's going to draw people in, what's gonna make them come back.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. It was, it was one of those, she was saying, um, to tag onto that, she said that, you know, you, one of the things she said directly to us was that, you know, like what you want is to be consistent, you know, and that, and that goes for all marketing in a way, is that it's about consistency. And she's like, you know, if your listeners expect a certain thing and know what they get and she's like, you drop on, you know, on a, uh, once a week. So they know that. They go anywhere from, you know, 30 minutes to 45 minutes usually. They know that. Um, she said, think about, you know, what are the questions you ask every time and do that and be consistent about it. And she was like, who's your main audience? And I was like, well you know, tech, cause that's been my background for the last, you know, 20 years, you know, obviously my family and friends and, and I said, and we skew towards women I think too and in non-binary and the LGBTQ, cause I have many friends and many connections and work in diversity and inclusion in that way too. We have lots of wonderful men that listen as well. So Julia was saying, you know, to be, um, to, to give them the same, the same things over and over again. You know, like, you know, you talk about technology, you talk about brand, you talk about, you know, this, the, the spark question is awesome. You talk about origin stories, you know, just make sure you hit those every time and then your audience knows what to expect. You know, and other podcasts that I really like, um, that I've been listening to recently is Donald Miller's, uh, Building a StoryBrand and he, he has a similar, um, you know, how he lays things out. And that's one of the things that Annelise and I've talked about after the, uh, the festival was, you know, how we lay things out. Do we make cuts? Um, how do we, uh, just, you know, build that consistency in and ask the questions. And then you had some really good thoughts about that from, you know, and you can, you can tell them some of the things you asked me to do. Because I need to be better as a host.
Annelise Sexton: Big thing is when, you know, the audio has been interrupted, is giving that pause a couple seconds so that the editor can make it sound pretty and like, it's still part of the thing, even though you had to cut some things out. Um, I think it's just, and also like, you know, you're like you said, like you're, you have a theater background, so you're like a one-take, like one and done, you know, like that you get one chance. And like now it's like, okay, well now we can, as we've progressed, you know, throughout the series is figuring out like, okay, so if we have these kind of our structure, it's like, can we mix things around, can we ensure that we're highlighting the best of our guests by, you know, focusing and like, you know, you know, sometimes and sometimes that means cutting things out and moving things around and all that stuff. So.
Heather Newman: absolutely. I know I've had a couple of people asked me, they were like, you don't have, you don't make cuts. And I was like, no. And it is the theater training of like, you get one shot, you know.
Annelise Sexton: Yeah.
Heather Newman: So that was kind of a big eye opener of like, Oh yeah, right. We did, we made a couple of edits in a podcast a couple weeks ago. And it was just because there was a big sort of gap and there was like a little bit of like, Oh, and you know, I was like, Oh, we should cut that out, you know? And, and I was like, I know that seems like it's silly that we wouldn't, you wouldn't, you know, think that, but, um, it kind of opened up a whole new world.
Annelise Sexton: Yeah, I was like, you can record an hour-long podcast and we'll take the best 30 minutes.
Heather Newman: And lots people do that. I know Mike Blazer and Mary Jane Gibson our friends who do the Weed and Grub podcast, you know, I've done, I've been on their podcast and you know, like listening to, you know, knowing what was recorded and then knowing what gets cut and you know, into the actual, um, episode. I was like, yeah, okay, interesting. You know, this is, but you know, the, the other great thing is, is that, you know, we've been doing this awhile and, and you know, some of them have been one shot, you know, for the most part. So you don't have to be super technical making tons of cuts and all that kind of stuff. I mean, the sound is the biggest thing, obviously. Um, but you can be as minimal or as, um, I was going to say maximal, but I don't think that's a word.
Annelise Sexton: Yeah. I mean, there's so many tools out there that it is, it you, you know, like I could do a blog series on how to do it for basically free.
Heather Newman: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, completely. I mean, and pulling together just all the different things and, and that's kind of why we wanted to do this is that, you know, we just, we wanted to share things that, you know, we've tripped over and things that we figured out, um, and things that we're, you know, still figuring out and we'll continue to figure out as this medium evolves, um, and just becomes larger and more and more people are doing it. Um, but it's been, it's been really fun and I, you know, and I feel like you and I both have learned a ton about the whole thing. Um, yeah. And it's been great. And also, you know, a big thank you to all of our guests. Um, you know, there's some people that have your know it was their first podcast, which is really exciting and you know, and, and you know, I think no matter who you are, you know, some people are a little bit more introverted than the other, uh, than others. And, you know, it's been really fun, you know, also just making people feel comfortable. And I think that that shows in the pod or that shows, I guess in the podcasts, you know, just the comfortability of being able to talk about life and talk about, you know, stories and where people are from. And I really, I'm very moved by people sharing those things. Um, cause sometimes it's very personal and I really appreciate that, that you would share that with me and share that with our listeners. It's, it's really, really fun. Really dig it. So that's good. Um, any other takeaways from the WerkIt festival? I'm trying to think of other, Oh, we just, we, we got bombarded and barraged.
Annelise Sexton: Oh, so much information and so much free coffee. It was terrible.
Heather Newman: Yes. I highly recommend the WerkIt a festival. Um, I know that they'll do it again in 2020 and um, it was just awesome. And the, uh, the ACE hotel was great and they, you know, did a lot of great. Uh, Oh actually, uh, we did see a live podcast interview.
Annelise Sexton: Oh yes, yes. Yeah. Hear to Slay. Oh my God. That was, I'm a huge fan of Roxane Gay. And to be able to see her in person like, uh, that was awesome. That's what, you know, I'm a big reader. I love listening podcasts and it's basically is I love hearing other people's stories because you know your story, you can get so caught up with it that you don't see anything outside of it. I think like that show just shares so many diverse stories, but then also creates a place for conversation about it.
Heather Newman: Yeah. I, I couldn't agree more. And it's Roxane Gay and Dr. Tressie McMillan, um, they do the podcast together and it was just, it was cool, you know, it was, um, and, and the production of the whole darn thing was cool. You know, there was a huge stage, big screen, you know, everybody was sitting in comfy fireside chat chairs and um, and it was just great and they had a bunch of guests on and you know, hearing their story and Hear to Slay is a black feminist podcast. Um, you know, and they do that. They, they say that the, you know, it's an intersectional perspective on celebrity culture, politics, life, love, all of that. And so, you know, it's a great one to follow. Um, and it's going to be on a, I believe it's on the Luminary app as well.
Annelise Sexton: Yes. And it's really funny, like brilliant women having great conversations and you hooked on to somebody that they said there. And I, you know, that was like, probably the best thing that I have ever heard is like, we sometimes have men on our show as guests on our show, but they have to be truly exceptional men. And I was like, I was like about to cry. I was like, this is brilliant.
Heather Newman: Yes. Here's too exceptional men and women and everyone for sure. Yeah,
Annelise Sexton: Exceptional people.
Heather Newman: Exceptional humans, exceptional, exceptional humans for sure. Yeah. So it was just really fun. So, you know, check out the WerkIt podcast festival. Um, there's another one, uh, that's called the third coast festival that's in, uh, Chicago, I know a really big one too. Um, and just look out for, you know, local stuff. There's lots of meetups and that kind of things of people learning how to podcast and podcasting together and all of that. So definitely check that out. Um, we'd love for you to follow us and hopefully if you're listening, you probably already are of all of our different, you know, social media channels and if you have someone that you're like, Oh my gosh, you should be on, you know, Mavens Do It Better, please let us know. We've got a contact form on the website or just DM us and, and let us know. Um, we've had a handful of people come to us that way too. Um, you know, I don't know everybody that's been on the podcast personally. There's a lot of people that are friends and colleagues and family that have been on. But, um, there's been, you know, like almost a handful of folks that, you know, heard the podcast and reached out and said, Hey, you know, I'm launching a book or I'm doing this or I'm doing that. Um, and uh, talk to them a little bit and we've had them on. So, um, and that's the, Oh, that's another thing. Um, in talking about podcasts is one of the things that they were talking about is cross pod interviews and that, that's a really great way to get more followers is, you know, you interview somebody, um, who also has a podcast and they interview you so you do a cross pod. That was a big takeaway too about making sure you do that.
Annelise Sexton: Yeah, definitely. Especially finding, you know, uh, podcasts that have a similar target audience a similar audience size. It's like, that's, it's like a really easy thing to, you know, get your voice out there and get, you know, your, your product out there and while supporting someone else's at the same time.
Heather Newman: Yeah. Super complementary too. Um, the last sort of bit, um, before we sign out, cause we're gonna have a little bit longer one than usual, but this is our anniversary first year special. So I think it's all right.
Annelise Sexton: Well we'll see where we get with the cuts.
Heather Newman: Oh, I see. She's got the scissors out.
Annelise Sexton: I am dreading having to edit this one. I'm like, Oh my God, my voice.
Heather Newman: Oh, your voice is wonderful.
Annelise Sexton: I know, but it's like, you know, not being used to hearing my voice recorded. You know, I'm just feel like, ah, I gotta find every error I made and try to edit it out. So this will come out in 2021.
Heather Newman: Oh my God. I love it. I love it. Um, let's see. Another takeaway. Um, two things, two things. One, uh, quick talk about music. So, um, uh, the music at the beginning of the show is by wonderful fella, Jesse Case and he, uh, is one of, uh, the main music directors at, uh, the second city in Chicago. I got to him through Mary Jane and Mike of Weed and Grub. Um, he did their podcast music and I really liked it. And I was like, all right. Um, and you know, and, and I think, you know, we continue, we'll be, you know, obviously using that beautiful music that Jesse Case created. And then I've had some other friends say, Hey, you know, I'm a musician, can I, you know, do some music for you. And so I think we might have some fun with that next year as well. Um,
Annelise Sexton: Totally. Get some like transition and bumper music.
Heather Newman: yeah, exactly. So I've had a few folks reach out and be like, Hey. And I was like, yes, please. So that's kind of awesome. But yeah, Jessie was great. And, um, how we did that is that, um, it was fun. I was like, you know, I was like, I love, my favorite song in the entire world is Baby, I'm a Star by Prince. The rest in peace Prince, I'm not going to go there. But anyway, you know, but that is my favorite song in the whole world. And I was like, and I was like, I like funk, I like something with a bottom with bass and all of that. And I want it to be upbeat. And so, you know, and I think I give him a few more songs and, um, we went back and forth and, you know, talked about what the podcast was about and he created, you know, some different, um, you know, lines for me to listen to some melodies and stuff, and then we, you know, iterated a little bit more. And I think I actually said to him, it needs more bottoms.
Annelise Sexton: Like turn up the funk.
Heather Newman: Yeah. Turn up the funk for sure. And, uh, and so that's how we came to that. And so that's been our intro and outro music, um, for all year, which has been amazing. And then my beautiful friend who's also a musician, um, and who's worked with me on Microsoft events and is a brilliant, you know, web designer, partner manager, all of that stuff, Julia Francis and, um, she is the voice of the intro who intros the podcast. And she did that for us. And you know, she's, uh, you know, I met her years ago in Seattle as a theater person and we did shows together. And, um, and did a lot of acting and fun stuff together. And so she's great. And, uh, if you're in the Seattle area, she plays all the time, um, out at many, many venues. Uh, Julia Francis is terrific, so you should check her out too. Um, yeah, so we've had a lot of really fun, you know, collaborations with people too, you know, trying to bumbling around a little bit and being like, who should do that? And maybe who would do that, you know, things, some, some things, you know, you know, we pay people for their good work and all of that. And then as Annelise tries to get everything free as she can to keep the costs down.
Annelise Sexton: I love free stuff.
Heather Newman: Well, totally right. That sort of leads the conversation into, you know, money and sponsorships. And so like at this point, you know, we don't make any money on the podcast, you know, it's, it's not something that we get paid to do. It's something that, um, is about brand building and sharing beautiful information out in the world and, and something that we're passionate about. And, um, the big topic around, you know, at WerkIt was definitely how to monetize and sponsorship and that sort of thing. We've been talking about it a bit, but we haven't really gone down that path so much yet, you know?
Annelise Sexton: Right. And I think it's, you advertising within podcasts is still in its infancy. Like there's, um, I can't remember what they called it, but it was when the ads were inserted automatically into someone's podcasts. Um, which like I had never noticed before, but then like I started listening to a new podcast and I was like, Oh my God, that one is total. Like the volume's louder. Like it has nothing to do with the topic of the podcast. Like it was like listening to the radio and I'm like, I'm gonna stop listening to this podcast because of that.
Heather Newman: Yeah. Well, it's like all of a sudden, it's like those car commercials, right? Where they're like talking along and they're like, AND YOU CAN GET IT FOR FREE and then it's the fine print where they're like duh-duh-duh and you're just like, okay, I want to vomit. It just is making me crazy. Yeah, no, yeah, absolutely.
Annelise Sexton: It's like we've been, you know, definitely like spoiled by, you know, streaming services like Netflix where there's no commercials or YouTube skip this ad in 10 seconds. You know? Like, and so for me, when I hear an ad in a podcast, as I said earlier, it's like, it's a very, you know, it's like, it's like reading a book for me, it's a very, I'm very in it and so when it gets broken by, you know, sloppy or kind of out of place advertising, I'm like, done, hanging up the phone. Like not going to do it because it just breaks that experience for me.
Heather Newman: I agree with you. I think the ones that I feel are most successful as well, I know Weed and Grub does this, you know Donald Miller does it. I've some other ones, like it's that the person who is the host actually does the ad.
Annelise Sexton: Yeah. The host-reads. Yes.
Heather Newman: And I really, I appreciate those
Annelise Sexton: One, you know, like this is not like, you know, buy, go buy this car, salesman cringy stuff going on. It's just like, Hey, you know, these people help me do this thing that I love to do. You know?
Heather Newman: Yeah. And that's, that's kind of what it's about, right, is that someone's helping you do what you do well by, you know, supporting you. And we've had, you know, one of our guests, you know, Alan Campbell who has a beautiful winery, Camlow Cellars, he's a photographer. You know, we've talked about some of this sort of sponsorship stuff and, and which we, we haven't, you know, gotten, gotten, you know, down to the skinny on it yet. And I've had a couple of other people approach me on it and you know, I think for us it's, you know, I'm not opposed to doing advertising. I think, you know, I was talking to Jason about this a little bit and some other folks, you know, it's like there's like the pre-placement of something in front, there's the in, in pod, you know, moment. And then there's the, you know, outro as well. So there's like three places, right, where you could actually drop an ad in. And um, there there's some pretty cool metrics and stuff and maybe we'll put that link in the show notes of a couple of articles about, you know, what things should cost and how to, you know, set up something like that. So that if somebody asks you, you know, Hey, can I sponsor your podcast? You could be like, sure. And what do you need, you know, or what do you want? Or what would it be? And not to over commit, you know, there is no 60 second spot, you know what I mean? Like there's no, there's no,
Annelise Sexton: Right, right. Oh god no.
Heather Newman: yeah, yeah. Like please, no, you know, so it's like, it's going to be short, sweet to the point. And, and in the, in the back end of the podcasts too, it's like, you know, being able to, you know, thank people and you know, like call out, you know, who does your music and who, you know, that kind of stuff is important I think as well. And, um, one last thing and then, and then I'll, I'll, I'll bring us to our, our close. Um, was, uh, the, there was a conversation happening, um, on, uh, Twitter about, uh, what, uh, um, Joanna Klein was asking, who's another MVP in my community, and she was talking about, do you fast forward, um, the beginnings of podcasts and/or do you listen to them at a different speed? Which I thought was an interesting question. Um, and I, I, I listen to podcasts at regular speed or just one up, depending. Mostly regular. Cause I love people's voices. But I think with audible when I'm listening to a book, I do tend to do 1.25X um, depending though, you know, so it's interesting thinking about if, if people get to know your show, will they skip over part of it to get to the meat or not? You know, I don't know. How about you? What do you do?
Annelise Sexton: Oh, I listen to it. I think, I mean I'm like one of those people who like, you know, if I go to a movie or pickup, a new book and no matter how horrible it is, I will finish it. Like I will, I have to hear the whole thing and like, you know, so it's, yeah. So I'll, I'll go through, it's the ones that I will not listen to another episode if it is excessive. Like if it is like getting into it, it's like, okay. Got it. I appreciate the ones. So some of the longer form ones where they're telling one story throughout, you know, multiple episodes. It's like, I love it that a lot of them don't do the recap. It's like, this is a podcast, like I'm bingeing on this. I don't need a recap.
Heather Newman: I think. Yeah. And I think it may play into, if it's a something like Serial or one of those other ones, you know, you're, you're going into and, but, but for, yeah, I think for the most part we're, we're, we're bingeing and I'm on Amazon prime for example, or Netflix, like I do tend to skip the intro, you know? Yeah. Cause I've seen it before, you know, um, and I want to get to the meat of it. But yeah, with podcasts I feel like, I like the whole thing is about the voices and listening to folks. And then also, you know, who knows, they might change it up and then you've missed something. Right? Like, I don't know, maybe they're doing a promotion.
Annelise Sexton: Well, and it's not as controlled as it is with, you know, like Netflix or whatever. It's like, it doesn't, you know, your episodes aren't tagged where the open intro begins and ends, you know, so like you're skipping like, Oh wait, no, I've gone into the actual episode. Like,
Heather Newman: Yeah. Where do you listen? I listen on, on the Apple podcasts on my phone for the most part.
Annelise Sexton: Yes, I do too.
Heather Newman: Yeah. I mean, I, and I do Spotify sometimes. It depends. Just because
Annelise Sexton: See, I don't pay for Spotify so don't do it.
Heather Newman: Yeah. I like Spotify. So yeah, sometimes I'll listen to it there. It depends. Um, yeah, it's super fun. So lots of great technology and all of that and you know, and you know, the, the branding of things and what technology you use and you know, all of those things play into this and, and hopefully, you know, we shared some things that, um, maybe you know, you haven't gotten your fingers on yet and uh, can, can help you with your podcasting and all of that if you're starting one. And, um, if you have any great suggestions on things that you use and want to share those, um, on any of the, you know, comments in social media, please let us know and we'll, you know, continue to put that kind of stuff out and up, um, on pages as well. Um, but yeah, and I, you know, Annelise, happy anniversary.
Annelise Sexton: Yeah! Happy anniversary to you lady.
Heather Newman: And thank you so much for producing this podcast. Um, I couldn't do it without you, so I just thank you so much. I, I'm not going gonna cry.
Annelise Sexton: I mean, I get to call myself a podcast producer now. That's, hella fancy. I like it.
Heather Newman: I love your, I love your Californian terms, grom, hella. It's so good. It makes me so happy. I'm Midwestern Californian now, but I, you know, but it's great that I love it. Uh, so everybody, um, we, we just hit one hour, so we've got to cut this, we gotta cut this.
New Speaker: So much cutting.
New Speaker: Yes. So much cutting. So anyway, um, again, truly thank you to all the colleagues and friends and family and, and, and people we don't know and people I don't know, listeners, um, guests. Everybody who's answered questions along the way to help us do this and, um, given us some great tips and, and been guests on our show and to Jessie case for the beautiful music and Julia Francis for her lovely voiceover. And you know, uh, Mary Jane and Mike introducing us to Jesse. And you know, so many people have, um, been so helpful with this and it's been a real pleasure, uh, to bring this content to you and to the world. So we're going to keep going. And one thing we are going to do that I'll tell you right now if you've stayed with us this long, is that we are going to take a little bit of a hiatus coming into the holidays. And so we're going to take that time to do a bunch of interviews and work on some of the things that we learned from WerkIt. Um, and so this will be the last podcast of the year on our anniversary. We're gonna take a hiatus while we go into the holidays. So if you're listening and haven't heard the 50, how many? Six. Seven, something like that?
Annelise Sexton: this is 59. I think
Heather Newman: 59. Okay. Uh, the 59 episodes that we have up, do check them out because you'll hear the progression as well of how we're learning and changing things along the way. Annelise, you're amazing. Thank you so much for being on today. I so I can't believe I got her to do this. I'm so happy.
Annelise Sexton: I mean, it's only because there's no camera.
Heather Newman: Well, fair enough. Well, you know everyone that has been another, and our one year anniversary episode of Mavens Do It Better here is to another beautiful day on this big blue spinning sphere. Thank you.
