75 Rodney and Keith — Transcripts — Mavens Do It Better Podcast

Heather Newman

Hello everyone! Here we are again for another Mavens do it Better Podcast, where we interview extraordinary experts who bring a light to the world. Holy cats. I have a couple of fellows here and I am very excited to have Keith and Rodney on. They are from the More in Common podcast and my tech life as well. So welcome, fellas.

Keith

Thank you.

Rodney

Thank you.

Heather Newman

They're sharing a microphone.

Keith

It reminds me of Saturday Night Live.

Rodney

It's like a skit.

Keith

Yeah, it really is like a skit.

Heather Newman

I think these are these are directional microphones, so you have some give.

Rodney

We don't have to be right on it. You're saying the polar pattern....

Keith

I'm so used to being this close with my microphone.

Rodney

We've got about 40 degrees between us.

Heather Newman

Yeah, you're gonna be alright. So, fellas, you have a podcast as well.

Keith

Something like that.

Heather Newman

Yeah, something like that. How long has that been going on?

Rodney

Two and a half years.

Keith

I guess three because we started in what would have been February of, I guess. 2017. Yeah, that would be three years.

Heather Newman

Absolutely.

Keith

That was when we started our first pilot. So, it was a distributed to about 50 people.

Rodney

We did a pilot - I forgot about that.

Keith

Where we got a whole bunch of feedback, and then went live like five months later.

Rodney

I'm surprised we actually ended up going live.

Heather Newman

That is awesome.

Keith

That is Not our personalities to actually make that happen and we did.

Heather Newman

Well, that's fun. But was there collaborations on things before that? Because I know you met in college.

Rodney

Yes. Yeah. We've known each other for about 18 years. We met at Purdue. Yeah, there been some collaborations. Like the first we mentioned the flag football championship. Our friends are extremely talented athletes. And we're okay, like we're pretty good athletes.

Heather Newman

Uh, I'm like, the guns in this room? All right.

Keith

They are definitely more talented than we are.

Rodney

But our talents in the whole endeavor were okay, what was our Real junior season was really disappointing that we didn't win the game.

Keith

Because we had all the same guys.

Rodney

We had this super talented squad and I'm like "why aren't we winning games?" And then we got together and we're like, "we're gonna coach." We're gonna organize and say, you belong in this position, you should be a quarterback. I know you'd like to play wide receiver, but you're the best quarterback. I put people in a position to win. And think that was our first time of really realizing like, we had the ability to do that.

Keith

We had a business idea where we wanted to start a restaurant.

Rodney

How many pages was that?

Keith

I don't want to talk about it.

Rodney

We wrote a 45-page business plan.

Keith

It was going to be called the Waiver Wire.

Rodney

Yeah, that was a second name. And it was gonna be about like, well do we want to share this?

Heather Newman

Because it might happen, and you might need to keep it under wraps.

Keith

It's a sports bar, in Chicago, which ended up going into becoming a website, because of some partnership decisions that we had made to bring somebody else on. A real big mistake.

Rodney

We learned about bringing people on as partners.

Heather Newman

Happens. That's a good lesson to learn early.

Keith

We divested that company and gave it all to him and said, if you want to do something, just go. And he ended up not, which is a sign of the partnership that we had.

Heather Newman

Right.

Keith

And then we ended up investing in just our time and our careers at Microsoft at that time. I had just - Rodney had just started at Microsoft about a year before. I then got a job at Microsoft, and we're like, let's just focus on this.

Heather Newman

Yeah.

Keith

And, you know, we focused on that for four years. We're like, we need to do something again. A podcast came up. Rodney actually asked me on. I was in Chicago at the time. And he says, I want to start a podcast with you. And I'm like, A What?

Heather Newman

Well yeah, right?

Keith

I had no idea what this podcast thing was. And it was like six months later, after I moved to Ohio, that we actually started it.

Heather Newman

Yeah. I had Andrew Connell on and he and Chris Johnson. So, they have the MS. Cloud show. And they were some of the first podcasters that I knew in our community, you know, and I was like, what are you doing? And he's like, Oh, we have this producer and he lives over in... you know, he totally had it dialed in. We talked about his history the other day, and it's cool to see folks who started way back and then those of us who, I've been doing it about a year and a half now too. And it's interesting figuring it out, like I spent six to nine months playing, you know? Figuring out equipment, looking at the zoom and plugging stuff in and going Ah, how does this work? And it's not as difficult I think, as you think. I mean, you want the sound to be good but that's a "one," but

Rodney

It's not as difficult, for sure. There's nuances though. Like we've lost episodes.

Heather Newman

Oh, yeah yeah.

Rodney

Straight up, like I have to call people, like, Yo...

Keith

It's not a fun conversation.

Heather Newman

No,

Rodney

"We don't have it," and he's like, "What do you mean?"

Keith

Because he's a tech guy.

Heather Newman

Okay. Got it.

Rodney

And I'm usually at least double, if not triple redundant. And he's like, what do you mean? And I'm like, it didn't... we lost that episode.

Heather Newman

Yeah. I've had a couple that you hit the wrong button.

Keith

You don't have your SD card in there. You forgot it. Like, whatever.

Rodney

Ah the SD card. That's a hard one.

Keith

But it isn't as hard, and like that was the thing.

Rodney

Anybody can do this.

Heather Newman

Agreed.

Keith

And we've learned so much in two and a half years. It's definitely evolved for us.

Heather Newman

How many episodes?

Keith

We're about to publish 67. So, depending on when this goes out. We've recorded though 90?

Rodney

About.

Keith

So, we have some bad - actually, it's probably less than that. I think we've recorded maybe 85.

Heather Newman

Okay.

Keith

So, we have a backlog. And we're trying to dwindle that. We have a better production schedule, because like for us, when we started the podcast, it was originally just going to be the two of us talking.

Heather Newman

Right.

Keith

And we realized that's not really that entertaining. That's not what we're about. And that's not what we're offering.

Heather Newman

Right.

Keith

When we got a guest, we scrambled. And then we were going once a month and felt like we just need to do guests.

Rodney

We were like paycheck to paycheck. We would get a guest and post the episode, edit it, everything. And have no clue who the next guest would be. But we knew we were committing to a monthly release with it.

Keith

And really Who is next? So, we're like, okay. And then we built enough of a cachet that we could invite people. And people were like, yeah, I'm interested. So, we started building this backlog because we never wanted to be in that position. And then we started releasing, on a whim, we were like, we should go every two weeks. So, we're like Oh, so we need a bigger backlog. And then next thing you know, we have all these episodes where it’s to a point where like our Season Two this year, we'll have an episode that will be almost a year since we recorded it.

Heather Newman

Oh, wow.

Keith

We just don't want that anymore.

Heather Newman

Yeah, totally.

Keith

We're trying to go in the other direction.

Heather Newman

Yeah, I got a talking to by my producer (hey Annelise), who is amazing.

Keith and Rodney

Hey Annelise!

Heather Newman

She was like, you cannot give them to me the day before. And I was like, okay.

Rodney

Actually, our producer - it's in the contract - he will charge us more.

Keith

Yeah, his rate increases for 24-hour turnaround.

Heather Newman

Oh wow. Okay, we didn't need to share that - Annelise cut this part out (laughing).

Keith

Wait, what have I done?

Heather Newman

What are you doing?

Keith

Annelise, I'm lying. It's actually not that. He charges us Less because he likes the pressure. He works better. He's a procrastinator.... It's a weird back charge where it goes back on my Amex.

Rodney

How long is it - like what's your target to release?

Heather Newman

We drop almost weekly on Thursdays.

Keith

Wow. And after, do you have a backlog?

Heather Newman

I do now.

Keith

Okay.

Heather Newman

I got to so I was maybe three deep, you know, and now I'm probably eight - nine.

Rodney

What's your biggest learning thus far? takeaway?

Heather Newman

I really like the in-person, and I switched platforms.

Rodney

What were you on first?

Heather Newman

Well, you know, funnily enough I love my zoom H4N. And you have a six, right?

Rodney

Yeah, H1 and H6.

Heather Newman

Yeah. The little one. I ended up giving that to a friend so they could start podcasting.

Rodney

People helping people.

Heather Newman

But I used to just set the zoom kind of by my computer and take the sound in with the directional microphone, with me in front of it, and then them. It sounds fine, but it was not great. And so, I started using GoToMeeting, but that one, sorry y'all, started cutting out on me. And I also was like, where can we get a two-audio channel? Zoom.

Rodney

Yep. It's money.

Heather Newman

Brilliant. Yeah, I mean, it's brilliant. So, I switched to Zoom. And then I also started putting in Hey, you know, if you want to do a video, or just turn on video, and everybody's been like, yeah! So, I'm capturing the podcast, but I've been capturing video which is useful too. And then because we always put the recordings up on the Creative Maven YouTube channel anyway. But people are like, Yeah, I'd love that for my promotion. So that's been kind of fun like just changing platforms. And then getting more marketing material from doing the video stuff. And I think the other thing is, because I want to get into talking about your podcast and what it's about.

Rodney

Sure.

Heather Newman

I think, for me, it's about just talking to people and that I really want mine to be very conversational. Like we're sitting having a cup of coffee together. So, it's less of a "Let me ask you these questions" kind of things you know.

Keith

Where's my coffee?

Heather Newman

Well, it's actually right there.

Keith

If you could just buy a coffee right now...

Heather Newman

It's a little late in the afternoon for that.

Rodney

It might be good for Baba Duke.

Keith

Yeah, well, yeah.

Heather Newman

So More in Common?

Rodney

Yes.

Keith

Yeah.

Heather Newman

Beautiful. You go deep with people; you bring up all kinds of interesting things. It's about compassion. You tell it in your words.

Keith

You start. I'll fill in the blanks.

Heather Newman

Where did this come from?

Rodney

So, at the heart, we're anchoring humanity in compassionate conversation. And, you know, for us, it's kind of a social experiment. And the hypothesis is that we believe we all have more in common than that which divides us. And you know, we get to expose... expose? I don't know, I use that word. I don't like it. We get to talk to people and find out who they are. Not just what they believe. Like, who're you gonna vote for? No, like, where'd you grow up?

Heather Newman

Yeah.

Rodney

Why'd you grow up? How'd you grow up? Why do you believe that you should vote for this person? And we can talk about that, because that's interesting. But we don't want to judge you because you voted for this person. We want to get to know who you are. And, you know, one of the cooler things that happened early on, actually one of the guys (Chandler) who's a big reason that we're doing this, he gave some awesome feedback in our beta phase or alpha phase.

Heather Newman

Shout out to Chandler!

Keith and Rodney

Shout out to Chandler.

Rodney

What up my man? Gotta make it more enticing. But he was like, man, where are you finding these people? And I was like, it's just people. We have been fortunate, we have interviewed some stars and celebrities and this, that, and the other, but like, it's just people. Everybody has a story. Everybody's got a reason, and more than likely they got something in common with you. So, we're seeing that hypothesis play out. And it's a really cool thing.

Keith

Yeah, I think one of the coolest things, like when we first started this, was about bridging disagreement. Rodney and I, historically, we've had conversations about anything and everything for 18 years and our friendship's only grown stronger, right? And we've come from very different points of view on things.

Rodney

Religion, politics, finance.

Heather Newman

So, there was some disagreement.

Keith

Serious disagreement.

Rodney

I grew up in a conservative Christian.

Keith

And I did not. You say that but I grew up without religious structure.

Rodney

In the Bible belt, conservative Christian. and he

Keith

And I grew up in the northeast, liberal, very not religious.

Rodney

I grew up a young black man, he grew up a young white man, but growing up in New Hampshire, that's actually germane to our relationship because he didn't know much about the Black experience.

Keith

Oh, it's very white place. As we all know, from the primaries, as they've talked about ad nauseum. So, we thought like, let's have some conversations and just demonstrate how we disagree. And what it's really evolved into is this exposure of just people. Our audience is going to take away from every guest something different. Sometimes they're going to be really irritated. Like, we'll get some feedback: "I just disagreed with them so much." It's like, yeah, but what did you think about them?

Heather Newman

Right. Right.

Keith

They seemed like really cool or whatever. Just getting away from that place of, Oh, I mean, all we're gonna focus on is the thing that you do. Like, I really want to get to know you. And I'll be honest, we were talking about this on the way over. Our podcast platform is all about our guests. Like we want to give our audience something, don't get me wrong, but we just want our guests to feel comfortable.

Heather Newman

Yep.

Keith

Feel like they're in a space to be themselves, that they're talking to people who hear them and listen to them. And we can just have an open and honest dialogue. And if we accomplish that, like then cool. I want other people to hear that, more than hear the words that are said. I want that sincerity. So, we do, we end up getting really deep in things. I mean, we've had two guests tell us about sexual assaults that they've never exposed to the public.

Heather Newman

Wow.

Keith

And like, things come up and it's just super fun. So, I've learned a ton about myself. I've learned a ton about the reality of the things that we think. Politics is an example. I'm super into politics, but 80% of our guests aren't.

Rodney

Right. Right. So, they'll be like I'm an open book... except for politics.

Heather Newman

Interesting.

Keith

Yeah. So, a lot of people don't want to talk about it, or they have like passing comments about it, but it's not something they really want to get into. So why do I care what they think about politics at this point? I want to hear more about them. It's been such an amazing journey. It's been a lot of fun. We've gotten to know some amazing people.

Heather Newman

That's super cool.

Keith

You are cool.

Heather Newman

Right back atcha. You know, I think it is interesting that so many people will have this opinion about politics or religion or whatever, and it's like, "Grrrr." I think being able to have a conversation where you're looking for commonalities, which is what you're doing, you know, I think it's a perspective. You're showing perspectives, right? And letting people get to know somebody whether they're famous or not or whatever, and I love that.

Keith

And their story. The funny thing about this, when we set out, 'cause Rodney's black and I'm white, race was a big topic.

Rodney

It still is, specifically because we started on the heels of Colin Kaepernick kneeling...

Keith

Right.

Rodney

... during the national anthem, and on a disagreement, we had about that. And when we got to the end of that disagreement, we were like, why can't more people disagree like this?

Heather Newman

Absolutely.

Keith

And then coming to an agreement

Rodney

with respect. I don't need you to change your view. But like, here's why I think what I think. And here's why I think what I think, and then we just talked about it. We debated it in a respectful way and at the end, let's move on. Let's have a nice night. Next thing. Hey, let's teach other people to do this. And then that's hard to do.

Heather Newman

It's difficult.

Keith

So, we end up having a lot of conversations about race, but the fascinating thing about it is we have talked about everything from homeless feminine hygiene. We had an hour and a half if you want to talk about one of those last conversations, and then we lost it.

Rodney

But then we did it again.

Keith

We did record but we didn't talk about that. We talked about something else but -

Heather Newman

That wait, the podcast you lost?

Keith

Yeah, the guest. It was one of the best experiences...

Rodney

So uncomfortable.

Keith

...because it was so different for us. We just left an interview where we talked about the female experience of giving birth. So, for us it's exploring all of these topics. We talk about mental health.

Rodney

That's probably the number one topic.

Heather Newman

Absolutely. Yeah.

Keith

Whether it's mental illness or mental health, we've explored so many different things. Where you go in, the whole bridging divides is a powerful thing, but it's so politically charged. When there are just so many other things to talk about, we don't always have to talk about politics.

Heather Newman

There's so many more things in our lives that need a light shined on, you know? So, have you had some heated guests?

Keith

So funny. We've had one guest that was intentionally political, from a conservative point of view.

Rodney

It wasn't heated.

Keith

... but it wasn't heated in any way. Like, we think back to that conversation a lot. And I think about it because part of me wants to say we've got to challenge people like that. At that time, this was like two years ago. I look back on it now and I'm like, we served our purpose in that, like, she expressed her opinions. We didn't necessarily agree. We left that conversation feeling great. Like it was good.

Heather Newman

Great. How about her?

Keith

She did too. At least that's what she told us.

Rodney

Yeah, we haven't had any heated ones.

Keith

We've disagreed. You get those moments of disagreement, but that's just not our style.

Heather Newman

It's not mine either. I like talking about that stuff. I love talking to people who have a different opinion than I do on all kinds of issues.

Rodney

I think for us too, our takes aren't really hot you know, they’re kind of like lukewarm, so I think people can receive them a little bit easier.

Keith

And quite honestly, I want to understand. If someone is what they say they are, I want to unpack it. Where does that come from and why is that your stance? Because then I actually might not agree with the thoughts but it's like now, I can receive your stance a little bit more, unless of course it's super bigoted and we're probably not gonna have you on the show.

Heather Newman

Yeah, right. That's kind of a non-starter. I agree with you completely. So, both of you, to dig a little bit more into origin story - will you tell me where you're both really from exactly?

Rodney

I'm from Indianapolis. This is Rodney. I'm from Indianapolis, Indiana.

Keith

And I grew up in New Hampshire,

Heather Newman

I lived in Zionsville for a bit.

Rodney

Oh, yeah. One of my best friends was from Zionsville.

Heather Newman

I was in the blizzard of '78 or whatever that was.

Keith

That was pre-us.

Heather Newman

I know. You were glimmers in someone's eyes.

Rodney

Yeah, man, one of my proudest wrestling matches happened in Zionsville.

Heather Newman

Really? Midwest. How do you feel about being from the Midwest?

Rodney

Right now, I don't really have a strong feeling. It serves me well out here in LA I think, for the most part. I think there are some things like the Midwest niceness, which I'm just now starting to realize, and I've done work to not be nice just to be nice because that has not always served me. But as far as like my values and family and everything like that it's absolutely served me. I never want to go back - to live.

Heather Newman

I don't either.

Keith

And why is that for you?

Rodney

It's a dilemma for me, because we have kids and our families there. I they'd like them to be around family, but I don't want to go back.

Heather Newman

It's weather is one, for sure. And my immediate family are all on the west coast. So, my extended family are there and I see them usually once a year or so. But like my people for the most part are out here.

Rodney

Energy's another one for me. I just vibe with LA, I vibe with the West Coast. I love the fact that when I got here and I got to a Costco and I call my wife, who is white, and I'm like, yo, we're both minorities. Like I didn't see a single white person or black person. I saw Latino, Asian, and I was like, this is dope. Like I'm used to black and white, mainly white, and like just being extremely uncomfortable because I'm the only pigmented person. And I was so comfortable with being uncomfortable that I didn't even realize how uncomfortable I was until I left that shit. And I go back now and I'm like, shit like there are eyes on me all the time. And like, here is none of that.

Heather Newman

Yeah, no, for sure. How about you East Coast? I know you live in Ohio.

Keith

I live in Ohio, so I live in the Midwest.

Heather Newman

Yeah.

Keith

I don't have an identity to the northeast. It's hard for me - like I don't ever want to live in New Hampshire. Again. I always like to describe it, and I never like to throw shade on anything (not publicly).

Rodney

At least you own it.

Heather Newman

Do you want me to turn this off?

Keith

The motto of the state is Live Free or Die. And very much how I grew up in that environment was, in the town I grew up in, there's not a whole lot of imparting. People interjecting, especially as a youth like to really help drive home that there are certain things that you should do. My parents are divorced, and I'm an only child. So, I did spend a lot of time just trying to figure things out. And it never was, for me the social identity of the place I lived. So, I didn't realize that until I left. And then you know, I lived in... I went to Perdue, where Rodney and I met. Moved to Western New York, then lived in Chicago, and I think in Chicago, especially when I first

Rodney

Oh, you just glossed over like the greatest part, because when we met you were moving in with a girlfriend at the time. You were moving into your place.

Keith

My place. And he lived across the hall from me.

Rodney

Yep. And you had a truck.

Keith

I had a truck

Rodney

and I had a fake ID

Keith

No, my girlfriend at the time,

Rodney

Oh, she was 21. But I did have a fake ID. Yeah.

Keith

So, she was 21, you had the wheels.

Rodney

Oh, I said it backwards.

Keith

You took the U-Haul that you had, and we went down to the liquor store and then we all got drunk together.

Rodney

So breaking bread is cool, but maybe if you just get drunk with some new people...

Keith

We became friends instantly.

Rodney

We became best friends.

Keith

So, for me, where I live, I do feel that sense of lost community, because being in the Midwest, it's different. Especially for like, my wife and I, we're very consistent in our way of being authoritative parents. So, providing structure, but not yelling and screaming, not that life. And there's just not a lot of that. So, we don't get a lot of people that we can connect with. Whereas like, here, there's more of that. So, we miss those types of opportunities, but we're around family like my mom moved out there. So, we have grandparents and everything, and having that ecosystem nearby and I like the weather. I like snow. I like winter sports and all that stuff.

Rodney

I'm on I'm on demand with snow.

Keith

So that for me, I just love being out there. I love Ohio and I like the culture of success that Ohio brings, which is something that is not New Hampshire.

Rodney

Plus, you're a Bengals fan.

Keith

That's fair. Or a Browns fan. You're an NFL fan in Ohio to be honest. I keep my sports allegiance.

Rodney

College is cool.

Heather Newman

I'm going to flip a little bit. We talk a lot about personal brand and promotions and stuff because we have the marketing hat on, and our listeners... what do you think as far as personal brand? What's most important, something that you're like, ooh, personal brand. This is something that's really important. Or a tactic you use to build yours, or piece of technology?

Keith

I would say I'll start by a tactic and then we'll let you because this is your wheel. Um, hire someone to help you, because branding from a natural alignment is not either of us.

Rodney

So, he's psychology, I'm engineering. But nothing to do with marketing

Keith

We've learned so much. So, we hired a brand coach to help organize.

Rodney

Shout out to Rich!

Keith

Because we could explain what we do, like the fact that we are at a place where we can say we're anchoring humanity in compassionate conversation took months.

Rodney

Two and a half years, three years,

Keith

to get to that point. So that that's one thing. That's all I was gonna say. I have other thoughts, but I'll let you tackle the rest of this.

Rodney

But this is like a personal, like you said from like a personal standpoint. Hmm. Okay, so I would say the biggest things are being intentional and being, and I'm going to use the word and then I'll try and define it: maybe be authentic? It's overly used, and I think people don't know what it means, but like really be you, and you got to know who you are to do that. Which that's the hard part.

Heather Newman

Agreed.

Rodney

I think that's why people say it so much. It's easy to tell when you see it in somebody else because I think humans are really good at bullshit detection (are we allowed to cuss?).

Heather Newman

Yeah.

Keith

Okay cool. I didn't know. If anything, you'll get bleeped out.

Rodney

Our bullshit detectors are actually, even if you're barely tapped into instincts, like you can tell when something's just off. But when it's on it's like, man! When somebody's doing their thing - Man, that's impressive. I love this. But it's hard to get to that unless you've been fortunate and blessed to do the work throughout your life. So being really intentional with what you put out there and promoting yourself, which also requires more work of loving yourself enough and caring about yourself enough to believe that you're worthwhile, and that people should take up your, whatever, your cause.

Keith

it's one of those things like for us, when you think about the sincerity, that authenticity, our brand is us. It took us a long time because you have to shut down the ego and you really need to tap into like, what is it that people are buying into?

Heather Newman

Absolutely.

Keith

And I guess it depends on the product and all that stuff. But even then, I mean, you can hear Simon Sinek talk about it all day long between Microsoft and Apple, back when he was doing The Power of Why. But for us, I'd love it to just be all about me because your ego screams like it is, but at the end of the day, the power of our platform is the connection he and I have, and the way we go about it and accepting that and embracing that. It took us a while.

Rodney

Like, even the fact that I'll sit here, and cuss and he won't? That took a while for us to be like, how do we want to manage that in our platform? But that's me. That's how I will show up in a conversation. So, if I change that just for us, then I'm not being true.

Keith

Because then he's being more to me. And it's a balance. That's the balance at the end of the day.

Heather Newman

Absolutely. And I've seen on LinkedIn that there is now a job title of Chief Storyteller.

Keith and Rodney

Yeah.

Heather Newman

Or VP of Storytelling.

Rodney

We had one at Microsoft.

Heather Newman

Yeah. And I was researching him because I was like, What?

Rodney

He's amazing.

Heather Newman

Yeah. And I think that's an interesting thing. Right? Because I think there's 700 or something of them inside of Microsoft. I had no idea, and I was like, how did I not know this job existed?

Rodney

Which would be great for you with your background.

Heather Newman

I know.

Rodney

And I just met one. I went to this TikTok event last weekend and my favorite session was about storytelling.

Heather Newman

Yeah.

Rodney

And it's a guy, he's an engineer. He's a coder but he also went to USC film school. And so, he talks about the nature of virality and he's like it's all about story arc. It's all about the hero's journey. It's all about beginning middle end. And connecting with whoever your viewer or your watcher or reader is.

Keith

I mean that's a hard - channeling your brand to a story that's consumable...

Rodney

It's hard!

Keith

... is not a formula we've quite figured out yet.

Rodney

We're kind of throwing a lot up there to figure out what stays. There is a point in our evolution like we were just with a friend of ours, and he's like, you guys, just you do scripted really well. Stay away from funny. And like, there is a point in our history where both of us would be like, no, because there's an easy thing. It's like all the funny people seem to be getting the clicks, but I mean, we're funny in the not funny, intentional way. But we know that, and he said that, and we're like yeah that makes total sense. Because we've learned it, we've owned it, we've figured that out. So, I think it's an important thing. Know your lane.

Heather Newman

Yeah, know your lane - and pick one.

Keith

Be consistent. Don't confuse.

Rodney

And that always bothered me, 'cause I'm very much a jack of many, and I was like pick a lane? But I like all of them. But really that doesn't mean you can't do all of them but pick one to start with.

Heather Newman

Yeah. And let people connect with you on one.

Keith

And then you gotta tie them together so that people aren't looking at you going, okay you told me how to use a hammer. But now you're telling me how to listen to a record? Like how do those play together if all you're doing is just those two things? Do one, tie them together, and make sure that there's a consistent message.

Heather Newman

Thank you for that. Yeah. We've been talking to everybody about that a little bit. Any favorite pieces of technology you use for that kind of stuff?

Keith

For brand?

Heather Newman

Yeah. Where do you play heaviest do you think?

Keith

That would be you to answer that one.

Heather Newman

Because you said TikTok like that's the

Rodney

That's the new one. We're trying to figure it out.

Heather Newman

I am as well. I went and claimed my name. That's what I've been telling everybody. You may not play on TikTok right now, but y'all go get your name so that you have it. If you want it.

Rodney

So like TikTok's gonna be a big one, because it's like the Wild Wild West days right now. It's like what Instagram was six years ago. So there's an ability to grow a following that you can convert to other platforms. Which really like email list is going to be huge, because TikTok could die in two years or six months, right? But if you get 100k or half a million followers now that get moved over to your email list and that you want.

Heather Newman

Yeah.

Rodney

So, favorites, like for us, because we're in the corporate consulting arena, LinkedIn. Because that's where a lot of our potential revenue will come from, or the people that we can talk to are there. But then like Instagram, we've been there a lot. I think it really just depends on the message you're trying to convey. And where's your audience? Who is your audience? And, where are they?

Heather Newman

Yep.

Keith

Canva.

Rodney

Canva is a great tool.

Heather Newman

I love Canva We use Canva as well. Annelise, who also designs everything, she's got Photoshop, of course, but we use Canva because I can go in and muck around and she can fix it.

Keith

Yeah, we've collaborated.

Rodney

Man, so we've kind of do this one mind thing sometimes. I'm just getting ready to say like Whether you're a solopreneur or like us to other entrepreneurs, it's a community. It's kind of like,

Keith

Oh my god, yeah.

Rodney

Because there's so many gaps. And we'll be talking about marketing. This is just something that I've kind of gotten into in the last six to nine months. And it was foreign to me before that, but through other entrepreneurs really learned a lot. And I've been able to help them with things like tech setup, or

Keith

do some exchange swap, because having the community of entrepreneurs is an amazing ecosystem that we never knew. So, like we're getting help with our website redesign while we're providing podcast assistance and editing, right? So being able to do that has been helpful. And what's the tool you used to schedule the content calendar?

Rodney

Oh, Later? Later.com. So, it's kind of like Hootsuite or Plann. So, it's like we can schedule out our social posts.

Heather Newman

Like buffer.

Rodney

Yeah, like buffer. Exactly. That's money. Absolutely, definitely like that.

Heather Newman

So, amazing podcast, building brands, working at Microsoft, and boilering up...

Keith and Rodney

Boiler up!

Rodney

All the time. Boiler up, and hammering down

Keith

And dads

Heather Newman

And dads and dads as well.

Rodney

Husbands.

Heather Newman

Husbands... So last question for you both. And I don't know who goes first.

Keith

I don't either.

Heather Newman

Flip a coin. Let's Rochambeau for it. And so, I always ask everyone. I'm interested in moments and sparks in our lives. And whether or not we pay attention to them and which ones we do, and we don't. So, can you share with our listeners, a spark moment, person, place, thing, book that seats you who you are today that comes to mind that you'd like to share.

Keith

We were very fortunate to work for Microsoft, and I'll say in many ways. While it may not align to who I am, it's been a it's been a blessing. And we had the opportunity to sit in a high-performance training from a company called Compete to Create, that is directly partnered with Microsoft. Pete Carroll runs it with Dr. Mike Gervias. And a great podcast. Finding Mastery, if you want to get to know more about it. Their whole alignment is about how people are high performers and they bring that to the corporate world and deconstruct it. I'll never forget. So, I had the opportunity to sit in one of the first ones that we had ever done as a company because it was in Chicago and I just happened to have been living there at the time. And Dr. Mike actually delivered it. And I was so burnt out. I had just gotten passed over for a manager job, I had been doing the same job for a little while, and I just, I was toast and I just wasn't in a good place. And I went in there. And after the, I think it was an eight-hour training, it was an all-day. Changed my life. Literally. I'd never meditated before and started meditating. And as a result of that, and then many other things along the way, led to the opportunity to do this. If it weren't for that. I don't think I would have ever started this podcast.

Heather Newman

Wow.

Keith

For so many personal development reasons.

Rodney

Yeah, that training definitely meant a lot to me as well, but I will say, ah, spark moment? There's so many - positive and negative. I will say Eckhart Tolle The Power of Now. That book

Keith

That's new too.

Rodney

It's pretty recent, but I there's - just always trying to grow and learn, and this book took me leaps and bounds beyond where I was in getting an understanding of myself and my place. And it took actually the things that we learned that I learned in that session with Dr. Mike. So Dr. Mike did a really good job of talking about the science behind meditation, and taking like the whole mind/body/spirit and recovery, like sleep and hydration and like taking all of that and saying like, This is how you show up your best, like Navy SEALs meditate. You should. Like you want to be your best?

Heather Newman

Yeah, yeah.

Keith

And The Power of Now added this, it fleshed out this concept of what the present is for me. That it's unshakeable to me that This is the only moment. This is the only. This right now is everything, like who I was, what I did, what I'm going to be. There is an importance, but this is everything. And that for me has been extremely grounding and balancing in some tough times. I've had some tough times recently and that has been really balancing for me. And that has given me a spark to continue with this, and to believe that it can be more.

Heather Newman

That's amazing. You two.

Keith

Oh, you.

Rodney

It's getting warm and we're like shoulder to shoulder.

Heather Newman

They're shoulder to shoulder

Keith

I'm kind of turned, giving him the cold shoulder.

Rodney

This doesn't have to go on but for like a bonus one like we did this article was it last year with Yitzie?

Keith

Yeah, it was July.

Rodney

And like he like one of the questions in it was like, like, what's the special sauce or like what makes your case work and coming up with a reply I hit him I hit Keith up and I was like, yo, like, it's our friendship. And like, I think there had been a piece of me, a big piece me that has been resistant to, like, accept that and own it and then like, make that public. For lots of reasons, like insecurities and like, the ego, male bullshit, like all this stuff, and it's just like, no, but that's the thing. That's why this works. And that's a, that was a spark moment.

Heather Newman

Right on.

Keith

This is fun.

Heather Newman

Shall we go to happy hour?

Rodney

We shall.

Heather Newman

Gentlemen, so it's the more in common podcast

Keith