Introduction
Welcome to the Mavens Do It Better podcast. And now your host Heather Newman.
Heather Newman
Hello everyone. Here we are again for another Mavens Do It Better podcast where we interview extraordinary experts who bring a light to our world. And I could not be more excited to have Chandra Purnell Bond on today. Yay. So excited!
Chandra Purnell Bond
We've been trying to do this for a while.
Heather Newman
I know! I was like, oh, finally gonna get it done. So, I'm so happy. So where are you speaking to us from today?
Chandra Purnell Bond
I'm speaking to you from Phoenix. Well, the enclave is called Tolleson. But it's really Phoenix Arizona.
Heather Newman
Okay, great. And I am coming to you all from my HQ here in Marina Del Rey, California as usual so yeah. I think probably kind of hot there, huh?
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yes. It's 108 today.
Heather Newman
Oh, my goodness. Wow. Okay.
Chandra Purnell Bond
That's a stay at home day. You don't have to worry about social distancing, because I'm not going outside.
Heather Newman
Yeah, no kidding. Well, we met - it's been a while now. And we've been sort of following each other on social media and we met through a mutual friend of ours.
Chandra Purnell Bond
That's correct.
Heather Newman
And so, we've been talking about music and all kinds of stuff over the last while, and I was like, I want to hear more about what you do, how you came up in the world, and all that kind of stuff. So, will you tell everybody what you do for a living?
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yes. I'm actually retired. But I have a company called Step Into My Cipher Entertainment. And what that does is encompasses all of our family businesses, one being executive and personal security. One is voiceover. And one is music mentoring and management. So, I took all of the careers that I've had in the past and sort of all of our family members have a piece within that family business. So, Step Into My Cipher really is what I call a connector. It's a networking company, it's a marketing company. It's all things to everyone Renaissance-type company, because I find myself in the role of Mommy, sometimes therapist, babysitter. I negotiate contracts I find things that can't be found normally, you know, it's one of those type companies where it's a catch all for a lot of different things. So that's why we left it open and said "entertainment."
Heather Newman
Cool. Where did the name come from?
Chandra Purnell Bond
Step Into My Cipher was a name that I picked up in college because I used to always say, oh, we're going to get in the cipher and speak. And when I was an MC, and people kept saying, well, that's CY. And as my career progressed, I ended up working for a defense company. And they said, Well, if you're going to talk about ciphers, when we talk about ciphers, we talk about a very close-knit circle of people who really have things in common who really can move things forward, and only those people have that information. So, I said Oh I need to change. It used to be CYPHER, as in hip hop, but now it's going to be CIPHER, as in all the people around me have similar skill sets or they're able to move culture forward.
Heather Newman
Right. Well, how wonderful that you are supporting your family and all of that stuff too. Because it's sometimes you know, you get people doing all kinds of different things and being able to bring that together to build something is really cool. That's really neat. So, you had a career. Well, we don't necessarily have to say the name of the company - you've had a million careers, right?
Chandra Purnell Bond
(laughing) I started out - when I went to school, I actually graduated early from high school. I had a pre-admit to what they call pre-college at Hampton University. It was Hampton Institute then, and at that time, I wanted to be a psychologist. So, my major, basically was psychology with a minor in business. But when I got there, I realized that I really had more of a business slant. Everything I was interested in had to do with either finance or accounting or marketing or economics. And I said, You know what, I'm going to go ahead and switch my major. Well, it was not a great thing, because at that time they lost their accreditation. So, I ended up deciding to leave that particular school and I moved back to Baltimore and ended up at Coppin State. That's a more of a working college, but it's also an HBCU. They didn't even have a dorm at that time. That's how kind of urban it was, and everybody there worked and went to school. And coming into that school was a shock to me because I was so used to sort of upper class, very privileged, I won't say snooty, but very accomplished families, and this was more of an urban environment, so I had to really adjust and get used to being back in the Baltimore environment. I did very well at Coppin. Ended up switching my major and still focused on psychology with a minor in business, but I changed the focus to drug counseling. And so, I became a drug and addictions counselor right out of college, and I worked with homeless and HIV clients, which was very stressful for me. Very hard on a person just coming out of school, because you don't have the world experience be able to deal with some of the problems that they're addressing to you. So, I would get the threats and the What do you know, kid type thing. And I really enjoyed that job though. Going out into the field and talking with people and really getting to know what people's struggles were, what the issues of social justice and criminal reform needed to be, things of that sort. And once I decided I was going to do that; I did that for a few years and the business kept calling me. When I was in college, I wrote a lot. So, I was a poet. I was with the models. I was always doing something very creative. And one of my friends named F Money, He nicknamed me MC Chandra, and he said you need to have a moniker and a way to describe yourself that's sort of your persona, it's not really you. And at that time, it felt like it was right to sort of bring that back. But my mom, believe it or not, even though I was an adult, pulled me aside, and she said, You as a woman trying to be in the entertainment business, I can really see you having a struggle because you don't listen to authority well, and you really want to be your own creative person, and within the industry.... She had been a booking agent, talent agent type thing for her university. She had dated a few celebrities by that time, so she was just like I'm telling you from experience. You've been to New York. You always have hung in Atlanta and Dallas and all over the place. So, you've seen it, you know, growing up with her, and she was just like, this is not the place for you. So, what I would like you to do, now this is not really a request. If you're from the south, you know, black mothers don't really request - they kind of tell you. But it was more of a You have in your family, the first black doctor in your town. You have people in your family who are the firsts in all the things they've ever done, and I want you to be the first in something. So, I want you to go back and get your MBA. And I would like you to go back and help those kids who really didn't have an understanding of the music business before, and really guide them forward. So, take law classes, do what you have to do, but you can do your art as a hobby. I don't want it to be your profession.
Heather Newman
Right. That's some good advice. I think. How wonderful that she felt like she could say that to you too. And it would be heard. And then you've dedicated your career to so many different things. And that job was when you were doing the drug counseling, that was in the kind of early, what, 90s? So, it's kind of at the height of the HIV.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yes. And crack epidemic. It was towards the tail end of crack and heroin. Heroin has always been really the prevalent drug sort of in Baltimore area, so it wasn't as much crack as it was heroin, which is worse. But worse not in terms of a drug, but worse in terms of the epidemic and dealing with the crisis that came out of that. A lot of violence, a lot of having to carry a gun even when you didn't want to, those types of things. And coming out of that period of working with people with HIV, AIDS and other major autoimmune diseases, I ended up having an affinity, I guess you want to say, for people who are underserved populations. So, all of this social justice background, criminal justice reform. I was a congressional page when I was in high school, I was in the young Democrats, I was with an Advisory Council. So, I was always doing something around criminal justice reform and people who didn't quite have the same opportunities that I had. And I've actually sat down to talked with other women who said, Well, weren't you discriminated against? Have you ever experienced racism? Have you ever experienced the glass ceiling? And I said, didn't experience it until I was almost 40. And the reason why is because I always competed on education. And so, if somebody said, Oh, you'd have to get a Masters, I went and got a masters. If someone said You need to go to this company in order to move forward and propel yourself forward, then I would apply for that company. So, I moved from being a counselor to the nonprofit area, I worked for the American Counseling Association and American Society for Training and Development. And at that time, facilitation sort of bridged the gap between those two worlds. I was able to go teach classes or conferences of 10,000 but then also go to the local organization and be able to sit down and speak 10 women who had just gotten out of prison. So, it really helped me to hone those skills and bring everything together. And then I got the call to be more into the financial realm, and trained to be a stockbroker, but realized I didn't want to take money from people that didn't have it. So, it moved me forward into What do I want to do next? I applied for a Ph. D program. I went for a year, and I decided teaching full time, it's probably not going to be the best for me. I ended up kind of regrouping and worked for the defense industry for 15 years. And that's totally against everything that you would think about creativity and being vibrant and being a woman even. And I don't have military background, so it was very challenging and difficult to be in that industry. And that's where I kept striving forward but kept bumping my head and finding that there were things that I would not be able to accomplish in that company. And I ended up getting sick actually, while I was there. Didn't realize I was sick - I was facilitating one day, and sort of started getting sweaty and it felt like almost an anxiety attack, and I said Oh, something's not right. And found out I was a diabetic, and I had already been experiencing some other health challenges, so it progressively got worse. And I decided to medically retire. So that's why I'm so young and retired and kind of have the freedom and flexibility to take six sigma and facilitation and therapy and music and whatever, and really blend that all into what I do on a daily basis.
Heather Newman
Wow. Yeah. And at the company, you were really doing a lot of training and learning for them, right?
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yes. And I became a Certified Professional Learning and Performance because of my role that I used to have with the American Society of Training and Development. I was just basically a secretary when I first started there, and worked my way up, all the way up to actually working on curriculum, doing meetings and event planning, that type of thing, and got the opportunity to work on a small little project where they were talking about, we need to have certification in the industry. And I said, Hey, I have experience with that. I have worked on credentialing at the American Counseling Association. I've worked with NIMH. I work with Porter Novelli, I've worked with the FBI, some other corporations. And I'd love to be on that committee. Well, at the end of it, they said, well, we're going to give you guys the opportunity to take this test. And if you can pass the test, then we know that it may be a little too easy. So, we're gonna keep working on this credentialing, but we want you to go through the process, the same way that a candidate would go through the process. and so, I have to go through, get vetted the same way that anyone on the outside would do that, and ended up working for the defense company and going back and taking the certified credential. So, I was heavily involved with ASTD for about 20 years.
Heather Newman
Right. Wow. How is - for someone who's gone through the six sigma? You know, you're an expert in that and all of that. Is that something that you recommend for folks?
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yes, I actually do. If you're interested in quality control, if you're interested in statistics. Anything that really has to do with making sure a product or process is from end to end, you know, going to get better with time, then I think that's good for people, especially if you're bored in your particular area. I hate to say bored, but if you're trying to figure out where you want to go next, it was a very good transition for me to go from one to the other. And then when I left the company, I was in quality control. So that, again, is something that I never thought I would find myself in. But when your company is rewarding you for saving millions of dollars, that is a reward in and of itself.
Heather Newman
Yeah, I think I've written a few ISO documents in my time.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Many! CMMI documents, ISO, all of that.
Heather Newman
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it's like you get thrown into situations where you're like, well, somebody needs to do this and you're like, Well, okay, I'll do it. It's a learning opportunity, right? And all of those things you take with you. That's super cool. I love your bookshelf behind you.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Thank you. Yes, I have several books on challenging people to read. So, they will call and say, Well, can I borrow from your library? So, I actually have a little checkout system set up. And then right now I'm working with my son's, there's a book called Invisible Man Got the Whole World Watching: A Young Black Man's Education, by Mychal Denzel Smith. So, they'll pull off my shelf and say, well, Mom, I don't understand what's going on. I've never experienced this, so give me some reading, you know, help me. And so, I have everything from biographies to travel books to womanist and feminist ideology, I have a few religious books. I'm not really a religious person, but I do have the Talmud, Torah, the Bible, that type of thing, so. And then there are books that explain their history. Our family is from Baltimore, but it's black. It's Irish. It's British. It's German. We're also Sardinian, so Italian as well. And so, explaining to them why we have blonde blue-eyed people in the family as well as people as brown as myself has been an education to sort of bring them to understand why we include everyone in the conversation. We have allies that we have conversations with and bring into conversations about race, about intersectionism, I can never say that word. Talking about how we build the future for our country.
Heather Newman
Yeah, absolutely. What are the two books on your list that you've been recommending?
Chandra Purnell Bond
So, The White Use of Blacks in America, 350 Years of Law and Violence, Attitudes and Etiquette, Politics and Change - and that's a book that if you're in criminal justice, some people recommend. And so that's this book, and by Dan Lacy. See, now you see my copy is well worn. And one of the other ones is the one I just referred to, which is the Invisible Man book. So those two are really decent. Of course, there's other books that are out there and they're more popular, but I like books that kind of speak to things that I have a specific interest in or a specific question about. So, I'll go pick something off the shelf and I'll say, Okay, I want to read The Bluest Eye, or let's talk about colorism today instead of racism. Let's talk about, you know, having issues with the haves and have nots. How we talk about the top and bottom versus the left and right, or the black and white? How do we have those types of conversations?
Heather Newman
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, obviously with George Floyd's murder and Black Lives Matter movement and everything that's going on right now, I think wherever we can talk to each other about these things, and thanks for sharing the books. I know that a lot of my listeners are always looking for how to educate themselves and I'm always looking for that too. I think it's sharing not just like, these are the five books, but what you're saying is it's the smaller pieces of understanding I think sometimes that are specific to somebody's experience or their industry or, you know, all the different flavors of who they are in the world of understanding, right?
Chandra Purnell Bond
There's another group, in addition to Black Lives Matter, and not to take anything away from them, but Until Freedom is a group by Tamika Mallory and Mysonne Linen, and they really fight for criminal justice reform. It's violence prevention, it's immigrant rights. It's cultural engagement. It's a lot of different aspects. And so, when you hear people say, Well, I only support Black Lives Matter, you support a lot of different organizations you don't realize, because you may retweet something, or the person may say, Oh, I really like that quote. And it's not always from a particular movement. It may just be from a collective group of intellectuals who've been talking on this narrative. It maybe have been from Cornel West. It may have been from someone else that you're not really aware of, because you don't see them in the news a lot. So that's the other thing I've been talking to my allies about is really get educated. And it's not an uncomfortable education if you have compassion and empathy. If you don't, then don't be fake about it.
Heather Newman
Yeah.
Chandra Purnell Bond
If you really have a want to know, there's so many different groups and people who are speaking about what has happened to them. For example, last year, we were driving across country and got stopped in Tennessee. Well, my brother is a police officer. And so, we get these little coins that you put in the car and sort of like, you know, you ask for a professional courtesy if you get pulled over. People don't know that, but some people do. If you have family members who are in corrections and criminal justice. My mom was in corrections. We have a lot of people in my family who are police officers. So, I was I wasn't startled, but unfortunately my husband who, my partner, who is a very large bald black man, was very afraid and I didn't understand why. And I'm looking at it like, Be cool. You know, just Hey, you know, we're going to tell them that we need a professional courtesy. And he's like It doesn't work like that for me. And so, at that point I got an education on, you know, I'm privileged. I'm used to being around law enforcement. So not saying that I know what to say and not to get pulled over, but there are certain conversations you can have where they go, okay. You're one of those. I've had the instances where I've been pulled over on the way to Mexico, and I've had to say, Hey, my next-door neighbor is you guys' supervisor, give him a call and he'll tell you I'm an upstanding citizen type thing. And those type of things are very, you don't realize that you have that privilege until you step back and look at it and go, Wait a minute, I just pulled the "my neighbor's a cop. He's your supervisor" card. Oh, that didn't feel real good. Because the other people in my car weren't quite as confident. They were very afraid and oh what if they go through all our things, you know, what are our rights, those type of things, and I've always been on that side of justice where I can say, I have a lawyer on speed dial, and now I'm about to read my rights and then I'm going to repeat those. Not everybody's that calm when they experience law enforcement. Not everybody's that calm when they're in a bind, and when you're afraid and the adrenaline's running, not everybody's going to be that peaceful and Hey let's have a discussion here. And it doesn't always work.
Heather Newman
Yeah. And unfortunately, you never know how the other side of that is running whatever narrative that they have running, right? Unfortunately. So, we've seen that not go so well for so many, you know.
Chandra Purnell Bond
I know.
Heather Newman
So yeah.
Chandra Purnell Bond
I've seen it not go so well in person.
Heather Newman
Of course, you have, you know, I mean, yeah. It's a thing that's prevalent, unfortunately. And hopefully we're making some headway to change, you know.
Chandra Purnell Bond
And the mutual friend that we have, it's funny how I met that mutual friend. It was in 1989, at a Public Enemy concert. It was down in Hampton Coliseum. And I became I don't want to say radicalized because that's not a great word to use, but I definitely went back and in my writing you could tell it became really angsty, and power to the people and I want to get what was inside, that rage, became outward. All my writings really changed then. I just published on Facebook not too long ago, one of my writings and people were like, Wow. I didn't expect that from you. So it's really good when people say I didn't expect that from you because I can say, Well, I'm multi-dimensional, I have a lot of different pieces to me, and most people do anyway, but looking at me and you look at my background on LinkedIn, and you kind of look at where I live, and people go, Oh, she's just middle class. She's never experienced anything and whatever. And those type of things really have created a narrative. For example, I mentioned my mom earlier, but my aunt also worked for the only FM urban station in our town at the time when I moved to Solsbury. I had another aunt - two aunts. That's why I said I've experienced violence in the family personally. Two of my relatives, I have one aunt, my aunt Helene. She experienced racism very early on in 79, in Florida, where her landlord decided that instead of having a conversation about the rent, she wanted to shoot her, and shot my aunt. She shot one of her knees out. My aunt, not thinking, grabbed and reached for a gun and they said it was premeditated. Well, she had never shot a gun before. She had no range experience like I do. She'd never been in a violent type situation. And she's very teeny, she's only 4'10". So, never really had gotten in a fight or anything of that sort. Ended up shooting the woman, closing her eyes and shot the woman in her heart and had to serve 27 years from that. And that was my favorite aunt. So, I had to live with writing her poetry and writing things to her about how I could navigate outside of that system, but then help her navigate within the system. So, we stayed close for a very long time. She moved to Florida, so she's down there. We don't get to see each other, but growing up with that since nine, and then I also have a cousin named Rose, who used to get bullied a lot> And we used to tell her just come straight home. And she was saying I'm going to come straight home, but they keep messing with me on the bus. And one day she's standing on the corner in our neighborhood, and there were four girls who jumped her, and they decided they want to beat her up at that particular time, instead of just talking. Her sister ran out of the house and gave her a kitchen knife and she ended up trying to defend herself and killed someone. So, where you don't think violence is going to interfere or be a part of your life, it happens to all of us. There are pieces where that shapes who we are, that shapes how we interface and act with other people. And that's what I try to tell my sons as well. You know, don't live in fear, but also understand that there are other people out here who have experienced things and the way they think is based on what they've experienced, the narrative that they have in their own life, in their own neighborhood, in their own church, that type of thing.
Heather Newman
Hmm, yeah. And when you said that I was like, Oh, no, we do that all the time. Over and over again. Someone in my family, close to me, was shot in a mugging, and it changes your perspective, you know?
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yes.
Heather Newman
Especially in the black community, where it's been happening over and over and over and over again forever. So, unfortunately.... You have such a wide variety of experiences with your career and everything and your family makeup. And it's cool that you're continuing that work as the company and supporting folks. What's kind of the most happening for you right now? What are you working on that's sort of bubbled up in the last...?
Chandra Purnell Bond
Couple of things I'm working on is I am a super huge fan of the Odyssey. So, one of the things that I do is it's a new band that's coming out, mixed with the Royal K Day and DJ Johnny (?), which is our mutual friend. And I do a lot of I guess you want to say, "fan bombing." I send as many messages to people in my network as possible, saying Listen to the Odyssey, get them on your radio station, and my friend Rob Schwartz at Who Mag Magazine has been really instrumental in really helping. They've gotten on TV in Philadelphia. They've been on Who Mag - so that's one of my fun things to do. That's not the work. And I work with an artist and mentor an artist named Harrison Clay. He has a very strong - what you want to say, aesthetic? His aesthetic is 90s R&B. He really is the kind of guy who wears the tuxedos. And you know, he croons to the ladies, that type of thing. I mean, he came from a background where, before 40 he had a heart attack and didn't know he could even sing. And what they did was say, well, you need to go to music therapy or some type of voice therapy to gather up your diaphragm and be able to breathe again, because he had to have a bypass and a valve put him.
Heather Newman
Holy...!
Chandra Purnell Bond
He opened his mouth and they went, Wow. And the next day, I got a call from one of my friends. And he said, You know, I really need you to work with my little brother. And I said, well, who is this? You know, I'm not doing any music stuff right now except my own. He said, No, I'm trying to tell you this guy. He's a Jehovah's Witness. But he's giving me all these qualifiers. I'm going, uh oh. And I met him, and I just said, We're gonna work together. We have a big sister little brother type relationship, mentorship. Actually, when we were working on his album, he lived here in my office for a while. And so, he was part of the family and you know, we would get up every morning, do vocal training that type of thing, and move forward to he's working on an album coming out. So, it's really been a great process. When I first started out in music, I was working a lot more with hip hop and rap music. And I've kind of evolved over to more R&B, electronica, country, things that I actually listened to on a regular basis. So, it means more to me because it's music that I'm going to play in my car. It's music I can play around my kids, it's the things that, if I want to quiet at night, I can put on that record. So, it's really evolved, and I don't think it's with age. I think it's more with the maturity of my ear. And things I want to hear and words I want to hear too, as well.
Heather Newman
Yeah, sure. Absolutely. And sometimes things that you want to have near before you go to bed. Right?
Chandra Purnell Bond
Definitely. And also, the other thing, a lot of people look at my pages and they say, you know, what, why are you at the range all the time? Well, one of the things that I wanted to do was marry, as I told you, we have a background in criminal justice and reform, is to teach people the proper use of weapons. To go to the range, have people understand that it's not weapons that cause violence, it's People that cause violence. So, I'm heavily involved in 2A and Second Amendment rights and things of that sort. And with Arizona being an open carry, what I did was, you can carry a weapon - there are certain weapons we can carry in Arizona, but I went and got what's called a concealed carry permit. And in order to do that, you have to take classes, you have to go to the range. You don't have to go to the range, but we recommend that you go to the range and really learn different ammunition, different types of pistols, rifles, shotguns, that type of thing. And it's more for self-defense. But then in situations like we've been experiencing here recently with riots and protests, if a single female is traveling by herself and something were to happen, you want to be prepared. Not to say something could happen, but that's always the case in the back of my mind. If I'm driving downtown, like, okay, what if something happens and I'm here in this car by myself? So, it's been really helpful to me to get that education and then to be range certified. And then also to be able to marry that part with the executive protection, which I do for some celebrities. So, I'm very unassuming. And so, people don't think anything. They'll see me and go, Oh, she's probably a fan or she's probably somebody's girlfriend. And actually, I'm providing security. You know, my eyes are on everything and I'm watching. So those type of things are fun for me. It's not works.
Heather Newman
Right. So, it goes under the "retirement."
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yes. I'm happily retired.
Heather Newman
Wow. That is interesting. There's been a lot of talk from people I've heard about - just the guns, especially and the Second Amendment rights, and whether or not people are like, I don't know, should I get a gun? And it's people who have never said that before, you know, because I think people are scared on all levels. You know?
Chandra Purnell Bond
I honestly think people if they're afraid, this is just my personal recommendation. Instead of going out and getting a weapon, I would recommend you learn how to homestead, or learn how to be a prepper, or learn how to do something like learn a field medicine. Or something that's more home so you don't have the danger aspect of it. Holding a weapon in your hand is power, but it's not necessarily a good power. It sometimes can feel very falsely... what do I want to say? It makes you get - I can understand how a cop could put a weapon in their hand and say, I have all the power. I am God. I am the chooser. I am the Punisher I am the be all end all, because being at the range, you can feel that power in that weapon. When that bullet discharges out of that weapon, there is actually an energetic burst that comes out of that, and people don't understand if they've never shot a weapon. There's a flash, there's a bang, there's a recoil, there's a lot of emotion that goes even shooting at just a target.
Heather Newman
Oh yeah,
Chandra Purnell Bond
So, having to experience all of that when you've never shot a gun and you're in a situation, it really doesn’t make sense because sometimes you're gonna hurt yourself, shoot a family member or the dog. You really need the education that goes with having that type of thing. Even with knives. I always tell people Know what type of knives you can handle as a female or know what type of knife that you could handle, maybe you have shoulder issues, or you don't want that person to be that close to you. Well then, you're not gonna you don't need a knife.
Heather Newman
Yeah, I've been skeet shooting so I know what that feels like. So, I haven't shot like a handgun. But it is the shoulder, the moment, the everything. I have all kinds of things I'm thinking right now about what just happened.
Chandra Purnell Bond
And there's emotion afterwards. There are consequences, there's guilt. There's like, I just hurt somebody. If you have compassion,
Heather Newman
Yeah, right.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Those type of things. My grandmother, she owned one of the first boutiques in our town. I know we have a lot of firsts in our family, but she owned one of the boutiques in our family. And I remember just sitting with her and she said, You know, when people come in and steal, I don't want you all to tackle them or to embarrass them. What I'd like you to do is pull them over to the side. And there was sort of a back room where people would try on clothes and that type of thing. I'd like you to pull them aside and ask, what's their story? And I'm looking at her cuz I'm only nine. So, I'm going, I'm not asking anything, I'm calling the cops. She said, No, don't do that first. You need to find out what would make somebody come into a small business. It doesn't matter if its minority owned or not. It's a small business. We're bringing clothes to a town that doesn't have access to the latest fashions unless we bring them here from New York, Atlanta, or Dallas, etc. And ask them why. And if they say, I didn't have the money to buy, then let them go. If they said it was for the thrill of stealing, or you know, whatever, then that's a whole different conversation. But we've had so many children who would come in and they would steal on behalf of their parents, or they would say, I didn't have any school clothes. I didn't have the latest fashions that everybody else is wearing. So, I figured you guys could replace it with your insurance type thing. That conversation that my grandmother said have with people really affects how I treat people now. I don't look at somebody and go, They're looting, they're rioting. They're protesting - Why? That's not the same Why. I already know the why. What are you targeting? What's next? What are we doing as a group? You know, I mean, I'm asking those follow up questions. I want to know, Okay, now you're mad, you're getting all of this out. What do we do with the rage? How do we take that rage? How do we take that emotion? And how do we put that in a package that when we move forward, we're moving forward as a unit, as a Movement, as a country, not just two or three individuals here in this state, two or three here. But we're really being heard. And that leads me to, as I talked about, I've been a commissioner and some other things in politics. I was a commissioner for disability issues in Tucson, but one of the things we used to also do is work with our local representatives around Rojava. We have Rosemary Gabaldon who we would not necessarily run their campaign, but we would be the voice of their campaign, and try to explain to people why they need to vote. And so that's really my if you want to say what my work is right now, it's trying to explain to people why our local leaders need to be replaced or for those who are already in office, get them educated, have them in on the discussions, have them in on how we move forward as a country. And so that's sort of my passion right now, I guess, you could say.
Heather Newman
Yeah. I was having a discussion with some friends about power and money. And that change comes from many different things, but you have to understand power and money. And if you aren't empowered to make the rules, it's harder to change the rules.
Chandra Purnell Bond
What is that saying? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think it is?
Heather Newman
Yeah.
Chandra Purnell Bond
That resonates with me. I need to write that down, so I always remember that one. But I heard that a couple of days ago, and I said, you know, I'm gonna say that again. I'm gonna keep saying that, because I think people don't understand that money is really the root of a lot of this. And I don't mean money in terms of currency, I mean money in terms of who has wealth and who does not have wealth. And that's why I mentioned it's not really a black and white, left or right type situation, it really is the top bottom, you know, who's the top controlling everything, and then who are the rest of the people? Because I always feel like the root of some of the issues that we're experiencing around racism don't necessarily come from a color issue. It comes from You shouldn't have that. And those type of conversations are what I'm having with my sons of, you can be on the phone and talking to someone and they not know what your color is, but they feel like they should have something you should not, you're going to get into a power struggle on the phone. You're going to get into a Well, why not? I deserve. So, then you start talking about, well, why do you deserve this? Well, because I've worked for it. Well, I've worked for it too. And so, it becomes a back and forth of My family 20 generations ago did XYZ and that's why we're rich. Your family can do the same. And those kinds of conversations I was not prepared to have with my kids. But I've had to have them because they are more privileged than, say, some of our neighbors who don't get a meal every day. We got offered during the summer, where they had the summer programs where you they will provide packages for the whole week. And some of the school members kept calling saying, Well, why won't you come pick up your package? Are you too proud? You know, why would you pick it up? I said, because there are other people that need it more than we do. We always contributed to the food bank. But that's not to say that there are not times when I've not had to go to the food bank. We've always contributed to other causes, but there's not times when I've not had to say, Hey, can you loan me blah, blah, blah, because my light bill's gonna get cut off. We're not exempt from all of the problems that you might consider with poverty. It happens because of the fact that there is power and not power. There's, you know, privilege and not privilege,
Heather Newman
Right. Yeah. And we were also talking about unity versus division.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yes.
Heather Newman
And that, to me, obviously, is part of that power and money. Right? If we can get together, we can have better conversations about that. If we're divided, we're going to continue to fight about all those things.
Chandra Purnell Bond
I appreciate you being an ally. I don't like to call you an ally because I just like to call you a friend. But in the narrative of the political world we're in, I'd like to acknowledge that I've always seen you be very positive and put up things to educate other people. And it's not just about racism, but also about womanism and about being in the business and trying to have a narrative that's always positive. I really appreciate that.
Heather Newman
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. I hope to be an ally. I know and thank you. I've just been talking to tons of people about all the things that are happening in the world right now. And I've been getting phone calls to people who are like, How do I show up? Will you look at this? And there's so much fear. I mean, everybody. I'm like, oh my God, I don't want to mess up and say the wrong thing. Or, you know what I mean? But I keep saying to folks, there's some golden rules of just Don't be a jerk. Get educated.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Take that moment. Right.
Heather Newman
You know, and if you screw up, say you're sorry and talk about it.
Chandra Purnell Bond
And move on. Right,
Heather Newman
But I appreciate that. Yeah, I'm always very interested something you said earlier about story. About your grandma. She wanted to hear somebody's story.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Right.
Heather Newman
Right? And to me, that's why I wanted to start this podcast. I want to share people's stories. And that's a powerful story of her doing that for other people, because that probably changed their lives.
Chandra Purnell Bond
And I've continued to help people after that, and that's not for a pat on the back. That's just something that I do. And it's not even natural. And I've had some of my mentors and some of my coaches sit me down and say, you know, you kind of give so much of yourself you forget to give TO yourself. That you'll give your last piece of cornbread to somebody or your last dollar, and then you're looking, like, Oh gosh, how am I gonna get to work? And so, I've had to learn how to balance that too. Sometimes when you have more than others, you have guilt because you're like, Why me? Why was I not born in poverty? Why have I been able to do X, Y and Z? But not at the level as the people in power? I'm still in the middle. I'm still down here. And I mean, that type of thing. So, I've had conversations with many people as well lately, because I got called a name. Let's just be straight. On Facebook. And I was really offended by it. Not because the name didn't fit necessarily, but because the person who said it doesn't know me. They only based it on what I'm posting. And I said, So how about we have a conversation and I screenshot how many organizations I've funded? How many families I've fed? How many times I've had to call a friend of a friend in a police department and say, Hey, that person is a good person, you know, they really had been trying to be on the up and up. They messed up one time. Let's get them some attorneys or some lawyers that we can really fight this particular thing. I've had people come back and thank me 10 years later, I've had mentors from when I was working for the defense company come back. I just had one last week. She was like, You changed my life. And I busted out in tears. I'm like, What are you? What do you mean? And she said, You sat me down and said, Be you and stop trying to compare yourself to others. There is no standard, you're the standard. Whatever you want to achieve is what you have to achieve. And if you have to go get resources, or you have to go get help, however, that help shows up. Maybe you apply for an internship that was only for minorities. Maybe you got into college, and you got a little extra bump. Whatever that is that can make you be successful, don't feel guilty about that. Don't always look back and go well, because I'm successful now, it was because of this. Because it's not. It's an amalgamation of a lot of different things. It's your family background. It's the activities you're in in college. It's your experiences in life. it's were you assaulted or not assaulted? There's a lot of different pieces that make up the success of a person. And notice I'm speaking of personhood, I'm not just referring to women, I'm not referring just to women of color. This is really a conversation about what a human is. And what it means to be an American or live in America. What it means to have had systemic oppression for 500 plus years. And it's not just here in the US. I've traveled around the world and in the diaspora, there's issues across there. People are still slaves in the Middle East. There are still people who are being sex trafficked based on their color in other cities and other countries. So, you see it across the gamut. It's not just a problem right now. It's been a problem. It's been a conversation. But it was never a public conversation. It was always things that we talked about at the dinner table or at our cocktail parties type thing. Now it's vocal. Now it's loud. Now it's on your smartphone. Now people are really concerned about Well what about me? And that's where I've tried to change the narrative. Even with the COVID crisis, I tried to change the narrative because I have an autoimmune issue. I have fibromyalgia and when you have fibromyalgia and diabetes, really, those are two autoimmune issues that unfortunately work really against your body. So, I can't be around people who are coughing and sneezing regularly. Forget what's coming going on with the Coronavirus. Asking my friends for a simple thing of when you come to the house or if you come here, you have to wear a mask has been a fight. And I've had to lose some friends because I'm like, You're not thinking about me as a human. You're not thinking about me as your friend and your family. What you're thinking about is I don't want to. But you're not protecting my kids, you're not protecting an elderly woman that I sit with sometimes and keep her company and play bingo. Whoever I might come in contact with is not just me. You're talking about groups of people that you're affecting. So even those conversations have become very volatile, very "my rights, my rights, my rights," and I'm explaining to people, but if you look at the world, as a microcosm, you look at the world as a system, that comes back to my six sigma training, but if you look at the world as how you fit in it, versus how it fits you, then I really honestly feel that people would step back into like, Okay, I'm going to be inconvenienced for an hour while I'm at the grocery store, then I can go home and do what I want. I'm going to be inconvenience while I'm talking to Chandra at her house or dropping off food or whatever, for maybe 20 minutes.
Heather Newman
Right.
Chandra Purnell Bond
And thinking of it from that perspective, versus you know, always saying Me, me, My, and how we can help each other understand what this world is coming to, because I wake up every morning and it's something new, and I just want to say 2020 Fuck you, I don't want you anymore. To be honest with you. I even have a meme on my phone that I sent to one of my friends, and it was like, You know what, I'm not even counting this year. If it wasn't for the fact that I was turning 50, I would not count 2020 at all.
Heather Newman
I think that's a feeling of a lot of people, for sure. And all of that stuff has gotten politicized and stuff as well. The word empathy. It's come up. And I talk about that a lot with people, and since I was a theater major, theater is empathy, right?
Chandra Purnell Bond
I did theater too.
Heather Newman
Yeah. And I think, for whatever reason, the word empathy, is not an easy word to read or say. I know that sounds weird, but I'm a word nerd and I know you are too. And it's like, just looking at that word and people are like, what does that mean? I sometimes wish it was a different word that was like fun to say and easier. I don't know, because I'm just like, how can you not get this?
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yes.
Heather Newman
Like walking in someone else's shoes. But truly understanding it too. Trying to at least. I mean, because you can never really truly do it. But I don't know anything about that. I'm curious - your take.
Chandra Purnell Bond
For me, empathy is almost like how - so we'll take it back to theater. How we used to have to prepare for a role. You have to sort of get in the head of the writer, first of all. The person who was a playwright, what was their meaning behind how they created this character? And then when you get into so for example, I did Look Homeward Angel, and I decided I didn't want to be Madame Elizabeth because she was a prostitute, but she was actually one of the richest and strongest people in that particular play. So, when I got told that, it changed my whole perspective on how I presented that role. And so, I actually went down to North Carolina. I got in the shoes. I mean, I really went to the places where they said this person had a brothel and this person went and got her clients, and we went to the graveyard and some other things. And I couldn't be, you know, a madam, but I picked up her business sense, and her sassiness. And her Oh, I understand why she did that. She was one of the few people of color in that town and the only way she could make money legitimately was to unfortunately be in the illegitimate business. Okay, I get that. I'll get that. And how it came across on screen, people were like, you were so elegant, but you had a grittiness about you, and you could tell you had either studied it, or you knew somebody who had been through that before. And I said, I didn't know anybody who'd been there before. But I had to study it and try to get in the shoes and understand what that person was going through at that time. And that's what empathy is, to me. It's really almost taking on that acting role and saying, Well, what if this happened to me? How would I feel about this? And then what would I do afterwards? Would I cry? Would I be angry? Would I want to run away? You know, what would be my response? And so, you know, as a therapist, I have, even though I've not been practicing therapy in 20 years, I still have that background. So, when I talk to people, I always tell them to come from a place of, If it makes you uncomfortable, you get that funny feeling in your stomach, and you're like, That's not right. That's awful.
Heather Newman
Yeah, right. Yeah. Thank you for that. I need to talk to you for like another hour. So good. Thank you for the time. I'm so glad we finally got to do this. How about I asked you my last question.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Okay.
Heather Newman
That I always ask everybody. Part of this to me about mavens and experts is looking at what, if you can pinpoint a moment or a spark and person, place thing book poem that - and I know there's a gazillion but something that you want to share with the listeners about what seats you in this moment of who you are today. A moment or a spark.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Probably my poetry. Because it comes from what I'm experiencing at the time. And so sometimes, and I hate to use the word "empath," too, because that's sort of like the new buzzword, but when I feel the world, I have to shut down because it feels like my whole body is buzzing. I can hear - like my ears are ringing - so I actually will have to go into a dark room, turn everything off, and then sometimes I'll keep a recorder next to me and start either writing or I'll start singing. And so those types of things. Creativity is my spark.
Heather Newman
Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that.
Chandra Purnell Bond
One of these days I'll have to read some of my poetry online for you.
Heather Newman
Well, you shared a little bit with me. So yeah, it's beautiful. So yeah, thank you for trusting me to share that with me. It's awesome. So so good. Well, I want to talk again soon anyway, but thank you for doing this and sharing your story and career and your "retirement." I shouldn't do air quotes around it because I know you are retiring.
Chandra Purnell Bond
I'll do air quotes. It's fine.
Heather Newman
You’re just doing so many wonderful things. So anyway, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Thank you. And I love you, Heather. Thank you so much for just reaching out and always being positive.
Heather Newman
Absolutely. Love you back. Yeah, we'll have all the good stuff that you talked about in the show notes, as well for everyone. Different things that we talked about. So, we'll have that done too. So, thank you again.
Chandra Purnell Bond
Yeah. All right.
Heather Newman
Awesome everyone that has been another episode of The Mavens Do It Better podcast, and here's to another beautiful day on this big blue spinning sphere. Thanks everyone. The original music on this podcast was created by Jesse Case.