Introduction
Welcome to the Mavens Do It Better podcast. And now your host, Heather Newman.
Heather Newman
Hey everybody, here we go. Here's another episode of The Mavens Do It Better podcast, where we interview extraordinary experts who bring a light to our world. And today I have a fantastic wonderful colleague and friend on, Kristin Juel, who I met back in the holiday times. Been a while but thank you for being on. Yes. Hello! And where are you coming to us from today? Beautiful behind you -
Kristin Juel
Aww, thanks. Yeah, live from Hollywood, where we are currently quarantined.
Heather Newman
Yes, and I am currently quarantined in Marina Del Rey, in my HQ as well. We were just talking a little bit before we got started. This is the first podcast I'm recording since the Coronavirus broke out, so we were talking a little bit about that. And I'm happy to be talking to another beautiful human being. How are you doing? What's going on for you?
Kristin Juel
Yeah, I'm good. I mean, these times are strange. And so obviously I say that just to start and preface everything, but yeah, it feels good. I, probably like you, I've been remote for 15 years. More than that - since forever. And I've had clients for so long that you know, sometimes you go to their office and you work from there. Sometimes you have an office, so sometimes you're long term on something. The last seven years since I started this company, we've all worked remotely. We have to, so it's been great to like, I feel like we're just positioned for this. It's business as usual for the most part, with the exception of the fact that obviously, no one has toilet paper
Heather Newman
Right, absolutely. I've worked from home since 2006 as well, so setup, you know, I've got three screens and the microphone, like all that stuff. But, you know, I get my juice from (not the siren that's going by which, you know what, that's life right?) In the Big City. But from going to in-person events, right? Because I do a lot of speaking and all of that stuff. So, I'm home home, and then I go and I'm like, Woohoo, and then I come home and I'm in my Netflix action and whatever else. Will you tell everybody a little bit about your business, because that's why we're here - to talk about that. But I bet you get the same thing a little bit. You know, where you work from home and then you're out with musicians and everything that you do. Well, tell everybody about Juel Concepts. It's great.
Kristin Juel
Yeah, I totally agree. I know exactly what you I mean. It's almost like you come home to rejuvenate so that you can go out and be, you know, on, frankly,
Heather Newman
Completely. Y
Kristin Juel
And I have always been very extroverted, seemingly yourself as well. But I have recently, well not recently but about eight years ago or 10 years ago, I started looking into a lot of things that what that means, and it turns out even if you are extroverted, you still need to have that place where you go to where you can, like, calm down and reconnect with yourself. So, I've been very, very diligent about that over the last few years too, so. Okay, so where do I start? Juel Concepts is a company I founded seven years ago. And it came at a time when I was very fortunate to have been working at a major company for eight years, called Kaiser Permanente. It's a health care company.
Heather Newman
I'm a member. Exactly. I think half state of California is a Kaiser member, so that was a very good position whereas a national person, I was brought in to do brand strategy. I focused on consumer and member engagement. Again, Kaiser is a system that you have membership. So, I got to do great projects for eight years, where I designed - we went from the thrive campaign through to the lifecycle of a member. So, like from the cradle to the grave, it is what it is, but every single touch point. And when I got there, so I did not want this job. I had already had a background in advertising and brand strategy for I think at that point, it had been 17 or 18 years. Or no - 15 years. And I didn't want a job. I was working at TiVo. I was doing consulting contracts and I really loved it, but they came in pretty hot and it was a really great opportunity. So, I took it and thought, well, I'll be there for a year. And it was eight years later. During that time, I really pivoted my career from just the advertising and strategy part to including music as a component for what I did, And it had always been there. I had always wanted to do something with music I loved. I did some freelance projects for MCA for a woman named James Simon in the 90s, mid 90s, late 90s when I was in California, and I had loved it so much, but they really couldn't afford the overhead of a person like me to be honest with you. So, I backed off of it and stayed in advertising. So, when I left, after the time with Kaiser, I basically was like, let me see what I can do using music and we instituted use of music and I built the business case. We built the business case as a team, for use of music for engagement and better health, but also, anytime that you could do consumer facing events, we found that it was really popular to put together an activation around music, where it was like sometimes if we sponsored the Nike women's marathon, we would also do an activation that was like When they zig we zag. So, it would be like, we would have massage therapy components for the marathon, as opposed to talking about running. It's obvious conversation. We wanted to have unique conversation. So, the whole point was build the brand through the discovery of something, revealing something unique and unexpected. Cool.
Kristin Juel
And that's a brand strategy. That's what we do. So, I left the company. After eight years, I was offered a package during a restructure and I was like, That's good. And I was like I love you. Thank you so much. We good here? Okay, cool. No harm no foul. I'm awesome... out. So, I started this company literally the day I got the indication this was happening. So, it's seven years, officially on March 13.
Heather Newman
Congratulations!
Kristin Juel
Yeah, thank you. It was fun. The first year was the hardest thing I think I'd ever done. Well, that's not true. It got harder. The first year was hard just to get your footing because you don't know what you don't know until you don't know it, right? You're in front of someone you're like, I don't know. I think I can do this. And, you know, no one really - I'll say it's not an inclusive industry. But then again, I worked in 35 different categories. I can't think of many that are - no one really likes to see someone new coming in and shaking things up. So, I was lucky at Kaiser again, I got to spend a lot of time at TiVo and Kaiser with innovation. So, the sense of iterative design and sometimes disruptive but mostly iterative, it feels very, data driven pieces, informing - we called it art and science - you couldn't - you Shouldn't create a brand with just the science. It's can be very challenging to come from that area, and there are many brands that do it and they discount and they do things that don't necessarily help them in the long run to create what we like to do, which is the value that you hold in the consumers heart and soul. Like what that's about. So the first year I did some projects, but most of the time, I was just trying to figure out like, I met with the Grammys, and I met with Live Nation, and everyone was like, you should work here and you should work there. And then it turns out someone told me the industry is like a burning building, and you're trying to run in when everyone's running out. So, you should really just create something yourself. It was great advice, a little hard to hear. But I've had those moments over my career anyway. So, I took it, I took the Dharma head on, and went right for it. Started with management and then realized that the holes that artists face are actually really good, best suited for me to help fill them with marketing too. And I have that background as well.
Heather Newman
Yeah, for sure. Wow. So, an auspicious beginning. Yeah, I'll say, yeah. It took a while. It took a year to figure out what we were up to. But then once it got started, it was like, Okay, and then it took a couple more years to figure out how to make money. And then that's still a challenge. It's definitely about the hustle. Being a business owner, you know, I've been doing it for a long time as well. 2006 for me, and you're always looking for the next project and working really hard. And yeah, my business came out of me leaving something else as well. You know. l remember, I think we had this conversation when we met and I was like, you find connections with strong people who have had to reinvent themselves and I feel like that's why I look at even the artists that I work with, some of them have been doing that and I'm here for that. Anytime someone needs to reinspire, reinvent, reconfigure, course correct - all of that. It's just, I think it's a very rare opportunity that people get in life. And you should really go for it like that. Well, why not? Completely. No, I agree with you hundred percent. As you know, I had Shelly Piken on the podcast not too long ago. She's just so great. We had so much fun and thank you for that. When we all met same night you know? And what is the name of that hotel? My brain... Oh, the Sunset Marquis. Sunset Marquis - I was like wait a minute what is it?
Kristin Juel
That was your first time there, right?
Heather Newman
Yes, it was my first time. You know, I'm still newish to LA and so it's cool to go to something that's so iconic. And the Morrison Hotel, the gallery. Just being there. I was like, Okay, wow. Yeah, it was an incredible night. That was a really good night. It was a fun one. And yeah, Shelley's a really great example of someone I can - You want her to succeed. You know what I mean? Because she's already a legend. You know, She's got it. Literally nothing to prove. I had to introduce her at this showcase, and I was just like, There's just nothing left to prove. I think it's just a matter of when she finally decided she wanted to leave, like I did. But what legacy are you leaving behind? You know, it's one thing to have helped somebody. It's another thing to do it yourself. Right? She wrote the lyrics and gave people their stories. Now she's telling her own story through her own lens, and I'm honored to get to partner with her on all of that. And it was a really fun interview I got to listen to. Yeah, we were trying to get ready and we'd met a little earlier. We're like, I need to zhuzh and so I need another hour. And we're doing video, so big shout out to Shelly.
Kristin Juel
We love her. She's an artist that we get to work with. Releasing her album this summer. And it's been a journey with that, and definitely now even more than ever.
Heather Newman
Yeah, no kidding. Well, and you have worked with Hamish Anderson for a really long time. Oh, yeah. Since that first year actually. Yeah, he came in straight away. He already had a different manager and they brought me in to help with some brand strategy. And the former manager was a little different background. Fortunately, I had spent some time on a personal level with some people in the industry. You never realize - I think that was probably my biggest learning curve, knowing how to ask people for help, or who to ask for help. If you can ask for help. And so, for the first few years I didn't, but opportunities would happen to me. Things would happen. When I was with Hamish for instance. Actually, in general, it was just amazing that the universe would give me these little tiny things that you just go, Oh, oh, that's what that feels like. So, like one night, I was working with a band whose lead singer was the basis for Hamish. But I was friends with a person named Gary Clark Jr, who is a great blues guitarist who I adore. And I was early on that tip because of Kaiser truthfully, because I was always looking for artists who were trying to do new things because we would do events and things. So, I was like, let's see what this guy's about. I went to see his show. I think it was actually a Sunset Marquis show that he did when he was there. And then I saw him at South by Southwest, and I had seen him a couple times. And then we got to be friends. And one night I'm in New York with that band who had introduced me to Hamish, and I started working with. And we're in New York doing the show all of us together. And Hamish's show was the next night but the band he was working with was Blizzard the night before, and it had been my birthday. And I remember being like all in a celebratory mode and whatever. Everybody came out to the piano bar for the show for Antigalactics and we were like, Oh, this is great. And then it was a terrible show. The sound was horrible. It was like the worst night I've ever had. Actually, Hamish left early because of that because he was like, whatever, and I was like going fine. I'm just a friend. And then then I walk outside the bar and Gary's standing on the street in New York and I was like, What are you doing? He's like, what are you doing? Then we just started talking and as the night progressed, I said Listen, if you want to blow some 22-year-old kid's mind from Australia, come to the Rockwood tomorrow. And he did. He showed up and Hamish's mind was literally like blown. It was like, How did this happen? Because I never even told him I knew Gary. There was no reason. One thing I don't do is I don't over promise and under deliver. Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
Kristin Juel
So that happened. And it was a very funny moment for everybody to realize like, that's again an indication where that night they met, they bonded, they had a good time. I had a great time. Hung with Gary for a while, it's just a really fun night and fast forward to five years later, I finally wrote an email to his manager and I was like, Listen, the work that he's doing is so important and Hamish and I would love to support it in any way, this last album that he did. And then the next day, we had an offer to do the tour and hustle in Australia for Hamish, so you know, if it took five years, these things don't happen overnight. You kind of figure out what you can do, and people use that word hustle all the time. I just think of it as being proactive. I think it used to be a negative connotation. And now I'm like, Well, I'm just gonna let it be. It is what it is. I call it hustle. I think it's proactive. It's one of the tenets of brand. I'm not going to wait for someone to tell me it's okay to do it. I'm gonna figure it out.
Heather Newman
Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, that word hustle is, well, first of all, I think learning the hustle in the YMCA with my parents back in the day, that was super fun. So, my connotation to the hustle is that, but it is, like hustle or productive. I was talking to somebody earlier that she was talking about, you know, just saying yes, as well. Every project that I got, in my early my career in technology, in and around Microsoft, was because I was like, Yeah, I'll do that! Didn't necessarily know what I was doing, but I said yes. And you know, 20 years later, I have all this experience doing all kinds of things because I said yes to them. Right? Or after it or asked the question, Can I do that? Will you be in my advertisement or will you play my show or whatever? Right. And I think that's the thing about people in small business and people like us who are consultants - That you have to be like that. You have to be proactive or you're never going to get anything. No, for sure. I think you don't wait for people to literally I'd rather, and this might have been a Kaiser thing, but I did learn to ask for forgiveness versus permission. And I'm a problem solver. That's why my career works so well. For me, I thought it worked well, because I would get a request. And they don't know what they're asking for. So, you have to figure it out. None of this has changed. We're all in the same boat. But when you're a consultant, you hear what people are saying, you process the information, and you go back to them with an opportunity or a solution. So, you know, when I hear hustle, I'm like, well, that just means that people thought it was like a like side project or something like that. A really easy thing for you to you know, bring in, but a lot of the work that we do isn't easy, you know what I mean? And again, even Hamish going that tour with Gary, you know it was five years to the day in the making when we were on that thing and that and those five years, he had to spend the time building Hamish. You don't just get to do (I mean some people probably do) but you might be ill equipped to pay it off. So even though perhaps it could have started sooner, I'm happy it happened when it did because Hamish was prepared for that role. He knew what he was doing, and it was very rewarding experience altogether for him, and it definitely moved the needle. But again, had we done it five years sooner, when we had an opening up for BB King even, I think back to all that and it was like that was a huge deal too. So, each of the artists, you know, they all kind of come into us in different phases of their career. And you know, Hamish was truly baby band when we met. Like radio, but nothing really was spinning. And so, he's like the biggest case study of what you can do if you're consistent in your messaging. Yeah, I think it is that that took five years. I mean, you probably have this too in your career. There's a quote, the quote is like, They might not remember what you say, but they remember how you made - ... how you make them feel. Yeah. And I have people who come out of the woodwork that I worked with in like 2005 or 2006. And literally, they're like, the last time I was with you was when we were on show site in a bar in New Orleans. And what are you doing right now? Are you still doing your stuff? And it happens a lot. And it's one of those things it's like, I'm so thankful for that. Also keeping up with people and stuff, but sometimes like something like that comes out of the blue and it changes everything, right? Yeah, and that's amazing. It comes from the Universe. You know, like if you if you put it out there, I mean, I am a big believer that intention gets you everywhere you want to be. You have to believe it. You have to go for it. If you have hesitation in your mind, it's not coming to you. And I know that maybe it's a little esoteric, and perhaps even Californian of me to say, but I'm an original East Coast person who has the values of work hard, and these rewards come to you. But if you're working hard at like, you know, something that's not serving you, well, then, you know, you're really building a career in an area that's going to never be good for you. So, I feel like all of our artists and myself included, we all need to be a litmus test for what feels right. You know, music in general should be a feeling-based thing. The analytics and the algorithms that go into it can change the conversation, obviously, shed light on things that are challenges or opportunities, but I do feel like the work that we do is better served when it's authentic to you. You are the person, you're the only one that can really make it that way. You know? Yeah, I'm with you, I believe 100% in what I like to call the Woo. You know, I mean, to me that putting things out in the universe, saying positive things, talking about what you want and the authenticity thing. Yeah, I believe that 100% I love that that's the way you work with your clients. I mean, that shines through in artists as well, right? That's why people connect so deeply with certain artists and others. They're like, Oh, they're cool. And they may be a megastar. But there's some people that people just go (sigh), and it's because they're authentic, and they share a story. And sometimes it's the GRRRR and sometimes it the YAY. And you mentioned east coast. I want to talk origin story. Let's talk about where you grew up and where you come from, and all that. Yeah, no, I totally am. I was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Ah, ok!
Kristin Juel
My first house, my parents lived in a place called Jessup, Pennsylvania. I'm Italian descent I know you can tell right? But my mom was Italian. So, my family was basically like we were raised in an Italian community. So, I got to be this really grounding. It was very fun. And we moved to the Poconos after, because I was 13, I think it was - no 10. I was 10. And I went to school in the Poconos. And then right before I graduated high school, my mother passed away. So that was pretty transformative for me. She had been sick with lung cancer for nine months. And during that time, that was like my senior year and like, what are you doing with your life? And I remember I applied to Pepperdine, and I applied to SMU and NYU, and I did okay. I got into them. The one I really wanted to go to Pepperdine, but that was obviously when my mom died. My dad was like, maybe you could stay closer. So, I went to NYU. And I was very fortunate to have been able to do that. I learned a lot about myself because when you're 18 and you go to New York and you have - I'd only been there like twice before. I had no clue what I was doing. I used to say I had the word Evian on my forehead, which is naive spelled backwards. And just walk around like this. I'm like this Pennsylvania thing, like what? Yeah, that didn't last long. That shine - held at gunpoint my freshman year, like within three months. Yeah lots of lots of turnover. I had, like 16 roommates. A big turnover at NYU. My freshman year moved off campus into the East Village and had the time of my life for a couple years.
Heather Newman
Yeah.
Kristin Juel
It's funny because when you look back on it, it was like Blues Traveler Spin Doctors, Joan Osborne. They were all the bands at the time. I'm dating myself, but I don't care. I'm literally gonna be 50 this month and I'm like Whatever, I'm here. My mom died at 46 so all of my life has just been like that thrown into Let's celebrate every day. I'm just yoloing. I've been doing that - I didn't even know it was a term. So, yeah, John Popper and all those guys were doing all these great music things and I was super into the scene. Then Mary J. Blige came out. It was all music like, I love music, I love music. Then my internship, I worked for Linda Ellerbee, and I did a Moveable Feast. It was a documentary with her. That was eye opening. She actually references me in one of her books. And I never knew people could write a book and actually put your name in it and then tell a story that was not really true, which is kind of funny too, because like, she just took liberties with things. She wasn't even in the room with the thing she was talking about. But that was a big like, What is this? People can do that. And then I did the York Times for an internship and I hated it. I thought for sure I would love it. I hated it. I was like, Oh, God, like now not enough thought. I wanted to be a broadcast journalist. And when I was working with Linda, she was like, Look at your face. There isn't an ethnic bone in your face. And she was right. The times were changing and she was like you're not gonna - so she was very honest with me and that's why I'm saying like people are always like, I think when you know I think people sometimes they tell you things and it hurts you to hear it, but I had to become thicker skinned and resilient. And so, I did it - I just went through it whatever - heard it, absorbed it, processed it, and then of course corrected again. So, by the time I guess it was probably on my third internship. I did Wells. Rich, and Greene in New York, which was an ad agency that was on top of the world. It was like best in the planet. Mary Wells was the iconic female advertising executive. Met - literally walked in and was like, Oh, these are my crazies. Like I've arrived. This is it. Yeah, like my first day I shamefully went to go steal a cigarette from someone, and I heard this voice like I saw that, and it was like the person who I'm still friends with (John Ray). He was an incredible creative director. He's like, I won't tell you let me give you a tattoo. And I was like, WHAT? So, I spent my lunch break with him tattooing my arm. I was like, I love this place. But you know, it's just so creative. Everything was super creative. And yeah, had a great time. And I wound up doing that for like I said, so long. It was 12 and a half years advertising side, and client side 13 years.
Heather Newman
Oh wow.
Kristin Juel
But the agencies I worked for after that, it was like Chiat Day. So basically, after New York I moved to LA and started working. Well actually, the Jonathan club was the first one because I was the editor of their newsletter, the magazine. That was pretty interesting. And it taught me again, it's a members only men's club. No women were allowed.
Heather Newman
What club was that?
Kristin Juel
It's called the Jonathan Club, downtown, and they have a thing of the beach too. So, I'm sure that they've amended that. I think they started letting women in while I was there, but it was like, no women, so that was that. Then I went back into advertising. I was so psyched to do that. So, I started back in there. I wound up going through the (other ad agencies), and it was like a denser Young and Rubicam. It's a bunch of murders that happened. And then the tail end of it, it was Chiat Day. And Chiat Day was a really great experience because it was you know, Nissan, and we did an iconic campaign called Mr. Kay and I met a woman named Chris Bianchi after I left there. She then eventually became the president of Chiat Day, so I got to see strong women in advertising. Really cool stuff. And I really liked it a lot. One point I left advertising to go do interactive, and everyone thought I was nuts. And it was before the internet came out, right and then like, we're all like using floppy disks, doing advertising, trying to make it digital. Hysterical, right? Like all the stuff you think back. You're like, Oh my god, and I have a lot of it. When I look back, I'm like this is mind blowing. So, I left and went to this interactive company. We worked on Mercedes Benz and Disney launches. And that lasted a year. And then I was back in advertising. So, it was fun. I moved to New York. Cliff Freeman and partners moved me to New York. You might know Chiat Day because they have like Apple. They did the original campaign for that aired one time during the Superbowl when they launched Apple. But you might not know Cliff Freeman until I tell you these things. So, he wrote "Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't."
Heather Newman
Wow.
Kristin Juel
Yeah. So he was that guy. He also did the Wendy's "Where's the beef" campaign? So, do you remember that? So, I flew to New York to meet with him. And I just remember sitting in the meeting and I did new business. So, I would help with the pitches and whatever needed to be done, said yes all the time. Whatever it takes, let's do it. So, he sits in this meeting and he has his baseball bat and just kept striking it on the floor. Really nice Southern guy. So nice. I think it might have been from Memphis. I'm not sure. And just looked at him and said, Is this like an intimidation tactic? Because like, it's working. So anyway, he used to come in and be like, is this funny? And we had a wall of like, Cliff-isms. You know, it's like, flatulence plus kids equals funny. He was very about like, the humor. Yeah, we did some great stuff there too. And then I moved over to another agency, then 911 happened. Then I moved back to LA because I was like, Okay, I missed the sun. I missed this guy. If I'm gonna have to do this, everybody became so stressed out all the time. And I was like, Yeah, no, I think I'm done with New York. I had done it twice, like moved from LA back to New York and then I was like, Okay, I'm cool. So yeah, I've been here now 18 years. And I love it. I think LA is not for everybody - in the first six months I cried myself to sleep and I'm like, What have I done? I always felt like there was a New Yorker, I think it was, a cartoon that I remember seeing at one point and I'm not going to get it right but it was like in New York when people say fuck you Oh wait sorry, can I curse? In New York they mean Have a nice day. And in LA when they say Have a nice day, they meant Fuck you. So, it was like, nobody was really what they thought you know? I think that that's changed over time as well. But back in the late 80s, early 90s it was a tough town. It was a very strange town. I moved right in time for the Rodney King riots. I was there in New York at Tompkins Square one. So, like I said, resilience, you know, that's a big thing. You got to get through it.
Heather Newman
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Wow, I always learn so much about people on these podcasts. I'm like, That's amazing. And Gosh, having so much experience in the advertising world too. Actually, I worked in an agency once, in Seattle, and loved it. And there is a vibe to that that is really fun. Because a lot of times it's a lot of money. And, you know, you have to really be on point, and words are so important, like little bits and chunks of things are so important, right?
Kristin Juel
Getting into like kernel of something, that's like you could say, Yeah, we got that. I know what that campaign is. To me, those are the things that you go, Wow, that just levels everything to just like a phrase, you know what I mean? And I love finding good unique positioning.
Heather Newman
Yeah, yeah.
Kristin Juel
That's the important piece.
Heather Newman
Yeah that's yummy. I love it. So, there's a lot of folks who listen who are technologists in technology and all of that, and for what you do for your business, you're doing a lot of marketing and brand building. What are some tools and things that you love and use every day if you don't mind sharing?
Kristin Juel
Yeah, so I would say - if any of our artists are listening, I can hear the eye rolls. Asana, I live and breathe by Asana. It is a project management tool. And it's a lifesaver for me because I have, I have run - when I was at Kaiser, I used to run 85 projects at a time. I would be involved in the RACI diagrams where it would be like responsible, accountable, consulted or informed. I was involved with so many things and I like staying sharp, right? So, I didn't mind that part. So now, you know, again, like as you're dealing with so many different things, plus there's a learning curve and all that stuff, Asana became my best friend because you can put reference information in there, you can have historical things. So, you never forget what you've done. There's no excuse. I always tell our interns when you come on, you'll see you can see a thin slice across everything just by going through the Asana projects and our emails. And the Asana projects, I put everything I can in there - metrics, things that worked, things that didn't work, anything I can think of, because I'm not sure I'm going to be able to find it later. So, Asana's the number one tool. I'd say that's my favorite. And, you know, obviously, slack is a good one, but it's a lot harder to get people to use slack. I don't know why - just a lot harder. So, our group tends to not use it as much. And I love analytics. So, every day I do - we used to do our own dashboards but now I just use a lot of the Google Sheets and stuff like that, the suites obviously. But I chart metrics pretty much every day, which is a tracking tool for artists to understand how their work is performing in market. Yeah, and I love the back ends of Spotify and Apple Music. And my favorite favorite metric is Shazam. I absolutely love Shazam. That's the one company I would have killed to work for. And when I met with them, like, Why do I have to move to New York? I don't want to do that. But I really loved what they did. I think they've done a great job creating an ecosystem for artists, that's all in one place for the discovery process.
Heather Newman
yeah, super cool. Shelley and I talked a little bit about this, and I've talked to a couple of different folks who are in the music industry on the podcast, and just the changes over time, from radio, like we referenced and all of that, going into the digital. Maybe what's one of the biggest things for an artist of today, sort of expectations of like when you put an album out, are you going to get paid? Are you gonna make it big? Are you gonna make a million dollars?
Kristin Juel
Yeah, I think you give what you get, right? So really, if you're in it and you're investing your time and you're putting your content out and you're doing a really good job keeping people engaged in your world and what you're doing, Yeah. I think you can move mountains that way. I think being consistent in a message, being consistent in what you're doing, your sound, is important. I think that you will not earn money likely, like they always tell you, it's like any business. You can't expect that you're going to start your business and within five months, you're gonna have a sustainable, scalable income coming in. You have to plan for it and prep for it. And you got to do a lot of work to get those people to care and come into you. And once they come in, you got to do even more work to get them to stay. Because you know, you can't just throw it, you can't just drop a single. People who tell me, I just have to put something out. I'm just gonna put something out. I'm like, you know, go for it. You do you. I can't even get involved because I always tell people yeah, if you did it in your house, and it didn't cost you anything, Yes, sure. Okay, fine. But like really if it's a great sound you should get behind your own work somehow and market it properly and make sure that you give it time and seed the market. So, most of it's like in Hamish's case and Ruby and Soul Phonics case, I was a huge fan of Ruby's I was telling Gary about her, and I was buying her vinyl. I had never seen her live that I knew. I knew her sound because the DJs were telling me. It was a distribution deal, but I didn't know it at the time, right? So, it's like, I'm a consumer before I was in music, and you're very like, oh, there's all these different ways you can get music to you. When the vinyl went away, and the physical went away and digital became the thing, again, I was like, still should be able to make money because when I was at TiVo, we had a $13 subscription. That's what TiVo costs, right, at that time. And yet, within that $13, I had money to market if we needed to. We didn't do a lot of it, did some circulars, but my point was, and at Kaiser too, so no matter if it's like $13 or $100 or $1,000 a month, there's always in that a line item for marketing. And that area, that's where I think money can go back to artists more. But in the current phasing of it, like how it's working now, if you do a good job and you build your brand, and I do use radio, and I believe in radio tremendously. I think anybody who discounts radio is clearly they're not dealing with the kind of artists that I'm dealing with AAA I think is a really great discovery platform and we love it. So yeah, big fan of that discovery and radio. But also, the streaming platforms, you eventually can get to a place where it can help offset some of your costs. It's never gonna - not never - it takes a while for it to get to a place where you can actually earn, like a lot. And I think most of the time that I've seen people really have a financial benefit is when they go into the Sync realm. So, once you have an established brand, and you're doing shows and you're consistent with your releases, and music supervisors start to hear your name, you can start to get the requests for your songs. And that's where you will see a payoff, and it's smaller than it ever has been too. It's like there are people who are willing to do it for free. And I'm sure a lot of people get their starts that way and they don't have to pay for music, but like a company like Kaiser, we always paid for music. And we went from using Bob Dylan and the Bee Gees to a Michelle Branch used for an advertisement, you know, in commercials. And it was because at some point you realize the emerging artists you get more bang for your buck even too. Bob Dylan in the Bee Gees didn't care if we use their thing on a Medicare spot, but Michelle Branch definitely would have liked it. And for what it's worth, Sync is another one of those areas that I've seen the evolution where people were telling me No, I don't want my song on your playlist. Because Kaiser you know, it's like health care. No, I don't want to. And I'm like, oh, but it's a health platform that we're working on and they were like I still don't care. So, I was told no. And now though you see these artists that are like, I just want the brands to get my songs out there. So, you see that evolution. Once you let your guard down and you allow yourself to earn in those areas, it really can be consistent for you. So, I'm lucky that all of my artists can, most of them have done something in Sync.
Heather Newman
Yeah, that's super cool. And you're working mostly with emerging artists or people who are maybe doing something that they haven't done in a while. And it's management and marketing for musicians, artists, bands, all of that.
Kristin Juel
Yeah. And anything adjacent, so we've also done, you know, support for other brands as well that are in the space, too. I mean, it's definitely more right now on the artist side, but it's always good to have a good balance.
Heather Newman
Yeah, absolutely. And so, talking about the pandemic a little bit, having folks really, like so many people are sharing things and going live and all of that. Have some of your artists done some of those things?
Kristin Juel
Yeah and I think that's great. I mean, some of them are more leaned into it than others. We're definitely trying to figure out how do I make an eight-piece band sound... right? Like that's impossible to do. So, they'll have to dupe over or something like that and do this social distancing. You know, Hamish did a livestream, Shelly did a live stream, Jessica did a live stream. So, everyone's sort of figuring it out. We're actually working very hard right now on a platform because again, I didn't really get into this just to be a manager. I wanted to get into this to understand music and technology, and where the brands fit and all that stuff, too. So, there's a really big hole in the market right now for artists to deliver their content, and actually have a potential monetization piece for it. I don't know. There are things like Patreon and there used to be Pledge music for when you released music. You know, we've used Pledge and we had a bad experience at the end there. So, I think what we're trying to figure out now is how we can turn Juel Concepts into a media portal that allows our artists to all house their own content in there. And then we offer it up to people and we say, Listen, you know, if you have $1 a month, or you have $10, or whatever it is, especially in today's climate, you know, right to the artists. And then you get to interact directly with them. So, like, for instance, if she does smoothies, she could do a smoothie thing with you. Like, it's like creating a sense of community, within our own artists, as well as the fan bases of those artists. But then I'd like to use it as a proof of concept for ideas that come in, where we're like, oh, this would be really good, this might be a TV show idea. Or this might be something we could do there, and then improve the concept, and then bring it to like a kwibi or whatever it is. My goal is to start creating content that actually is interesting for other brands and other artist companies, music companies to do something. So, we're gonna so we're gonna start kicking that off, it's the 16th I think? with a livestream for just Juel Concept artists. And then we'll open up the portal, hopefully shortly after that with a couple content pieces and like a calendar section. And try and use this time to start deconstructing and reconstructing what it could possibly look like. Because I think the worst thing we could see would be if each artist went and did their own Patreon or something during this time, because you'll be spending so much time and energy marketing that it loses - it's even what Shelley doesn't want to do. Nobody wants to be having to do marketing all the time or social media. So, I figured if Juel Concept does it, and then we port everything into it, it might be easier for everyone. And we have no idea what we're doing. But this is another one of those, like, if you plant the stake in the ground today, in a year, you'll have experience that's worthwhile somehow, one way or another. Like 10,000 hours towards something makes you an expert, right? May as well do it with something you love.
Heather Newman
Absolutely. Malcolm Gladwell it up for sure. The other thing, what does your shirt say? It says Hot Buttered something, but I can't see the other part.
Kristin Juel
Hot Buttered Soul.
Heather Newman
Oh, ok! I was like, I wonder what that says. And I've been thinking about it.
Kristin Juel
Yeah, Isaac Hayes.
Heather Newman
Yes, totally. I was like, I love it. Awesome. That's so interesting and cool. I love that concept. I mean, it's, kind of like you bringing people together under one house, and then being able to do all kinds of things, slice and dice the content, how you would want and also help them get it out in a way that's...
Kristin Juel
It's in one centralized location. It's just exhausting, all of the different things that everybody's doing, and we're gonna see more. This is the thing you know. Now it's the wild wild west again. It's our favorite time. Everybody's like, out of necessity comes opportunity. So, I've been kind of Waiting for this. And again, coming into this industry, looking at the data, looking at the art and the science. This is all going to matter. You know our artists; they can perform their songs. They're legitimately talented. We're not trying to go into the - how do I say this without sounding...? If any of them wanted to be on a label, they could do it. It's not about the label. It's about the type of music that they're putting out. So, they're putting out music that we're hoping is going to last the test of time. And I think that's the piece, like when you look back on Hamish and Ruby and Jessica, Shelly, these are all every one of them. You know, you're putting out something that in 10 years, you could still listen to, right? I know like even Ruby's stuff, it's just so classically soul oriented. That's never gonna go out of style. It's just never. It will always be fashionable just because it's great music, you know what I mean? So, we do put a priority on the performance is an important piece of this and you have to be able to handle your stuff like live shows.
Heather Newman
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Kristin Juel
So, we're excited to try this. I think I have been almost to a sense of somewhat distraction, watching the industry for the last few weeks, just being like okay, so obviously without drive times you can expect consumption of music to go down in certain areas, also with podcasts too. These are all things everyone's going through right now. Where is the dust settling? Radio, we were about we were about to go to radio with a single for Hamish called World's Gone Mad, and our radio people were like, maybe not right now, you know, because it's a very strange time. And actually, to be honest with you, it was Hamish, he didn't want to go out with it anymore. And I get it. You have to have the conversation. So, we're going to switch gears to a different radio song. But even this morning when I was having the call with the radio programmer, I was like, how is the climate? Is it a good time? They sent me some stuff and I was like looking through the data and yeah, I mean it's the discovery people are actually, they feel a sense of connected to their community through use of radio. More so now than ever.
Heather Newman
Yeah.
Kristin Juel
So even though they don't have the drive time and they're not at the gym, using music or listening to things that way, they're actually finding that there's a potential of up to 15% more coming in the door. So, we have our work cut out for us and we got to keep at it, but between radio and the streaming platforms, even though that first week, everything took a dip except classical music, folk music, and children's music, which makes sense. I mean, everybody having a return to home. This week, I saw that they said year to year streams are actually up even more. So now I think they're just going to be watching to see how - there might be a slight dip, but nothing lasts forever. You can only listen to the news so much and you can only watch so much Netflix. At some point you're going to need to take a walk.
Heather Newman
Yeah, absolutely. I think we've seen that. All of the here, go watch a play for free, do this and that, and you know, everybody's turning to art and music and all of that stuff to just have. It continues to be an escape. But I think right now even more so when you can put some headphones on and just (shh) for a second.
Kristin Juel
Or dance. We're supporting DJ D-Nice.
Heather Newman
Oh my gosh, that was amazing. Right?
Kristin Juel
Right. I was sending that to everybody. I'm like, get on here now. Like, this is the zeitgeist, this is when you go okay. So, someone tapped into something that everyone was feeling, and only he could do it that way. Right? Questlove was on the ones and twos as well. He had his sense but that like D-Nice came to life.
Heather Newman
Yeah. And for those of you who don't know what happened, DJ D-Nice went on, did an Instagram Live, and started, it was called homeschool. And it ended up going for nine hours. And it started with like 1000. And then it was 5000 and then 10,000. And then I think ended up being over 100,000 or something. And people kept dropping in because on Instagram Live, you can, you know, say request to drop in. And so, you had people like Drake and Michelle Obama and like, J-lo. You're like, Okay, like all of a sudden it was just like everybody and their mom, literally listening to this thing.
Kristin Juel
And he's like shout everybody out, like we were in the club - like, Oh,
Heather Newman
Yeah, it was amazing. He was on Jimmy Fallon and talking about it the other night. Yeah, it was really cool. Because Jimmy was taping from his house and his wife is holding the camera you know, and his kids are in it. I was like, it's the thing. You're seeing everybody's lives and their kitchens and whatever they're wearing. There's something about taking down those masks I think sometimes. It's like we're all human. We're all trying to figure it out.
Kristin Juel
Yeah, you know what? We needed it. We needed a collective pause. I've been saying this for a couple weeks now and I'm like, it was time. We have been, I mean between the market and the everything just was like the rat race even I, I'm usually pretty good about maintaining a sense of like, pause. I had no pause. And it's actually maybe gotten worse - I had a 16-hour day the other day and a 19-hour day the day before that and I was like, This is not helping. I'm gonna have to learn boundaries because now everybody and their brother is like Yeah, let's do this. But I you know; I do feel like collectively we were on a crash course for just chaos. We were on chaos nonstop. So, there's only so much you can handle when you got a certain person in office who's challenged some systems, and the sense of empathy was gone. I feel like that. And one of the pieces that we have to hold the truest for what we do is feeling for other people, right? And I learned that at Kaiser. Through innovation, the best design is when you can put yourself in someone else's shoes. I feel like that was missing for much of frankly the world. And I think part of it is because there's just so many issues that we have. And now the whole world can see all the issues. And I think we just needed - this retreating to our homes is actually like, Let's collect, let's lick our wounds. Let's self-love. And then we get to come back and hopefully present the world with who we really want to be and who we really are, which hopefully at our core is a stronger sense of community and caring for each other.
Heather Newman
Yeah, that's just too bad a pandemic had to take us to this place, right?
Kristin Juel
But you know what? How else could we have gotten here? Because this was like, there's no gender, there's no race. There's no religion. It doesn't care who we are at all. It is just like you're a host and I'm going to come in. So, in a way it kind of had to be something that was ubiquitous across all platforms, across all types. And I recognize this is a this is a tough time. This is frightening. I wake up - I actually had it, which was so strange to even admit but I think I didn't see you. I was with Shelly at NAMM and right after that I got sick. And from February 9 to February 16. And when I went to the doctor, they didn't even, they were like Were you in China? No. Okay, no. So, they thought it was whooping cough.
Heather Newman
Oh wow.
Kristin Juel
And it went away thank God, but when you're going through all of this it's like I get it. It is not an easy time. Physically you become very - between the sickness it also keeps this anxiety like Could I get it again? I know nothing about this. I didn't even know I had it then. And it's a real physical pain, you know, with your lungs, like that cough is a really real thing. But my bigger point was more like I don't know that you could go - you have to feel it the whole way through and know that it's gonna be okay. Even when you have anxiety, you're connected. Even though we have these walls amongst us, you still are connected in the bigger spirit with something. So, it's a tough time and I'm not trying to discount it. But I do feel like it is an opportunity for people to come together. Is humanity better?
Heather Newman
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the decisions, with anything, you can run the fear narrative. You can be negative, you can all of that stuff. Right? And I agree with you there's choices to be made of like, Okay, this is happening. In this moment. What am I going to do, how am I going to deal with it? How do I want to be throughout it and when it's hopefully over At some point? It's about it's about choosing those things. And sometimes you don't have a choice, but what you do and can choose - positivity and empathy and sharing and trying to be helpful? I think those are great things to reach for and choose and all of us as a collective society and humanity, like having to go through it together, because we all are.
Kristin Juel
Yeah, yeah. And we're here for each other too. So, I'm looking forward to not having to be sequestered in our homes. But there'll be more challenges ahead. For what it's worth, I think, like when you brought up the live streaming before, I feel like this has been in the making for years. When they had the parachuting and you had the Ariana Grande shooting, and you had the Vegas shooting. It's been it's been percolating. People are like, Oh. So, what we don't want to have is where people can't be near each other, obviously, but the virtual piece is a good thing to figure out in times of difficulties. I feel like we've kind of been in this space. And we just have to like, maybe there are times, and this might not be the only time we have to, you know, return to home. We might have to do this again, at some point just to combat some other strain or whatever. So, I think we're getting a good learning exercise for everyone.
Heather Newman
Yeah, I agree with you. What a time.
Kristin Juel
But we've been here before. We had 911. I worked on the travel industry where Hotwire was our client, and they cancelled the business and, you know, six of the major airlines owned Hotwire at the time. They weren't gonna do any more advertising. You know, we've seen these things before. We just have to be prepared. And I think that's the hard part is that the entire world is vulnerable now. So, it's just a much bigger stage. The world stages.
Heather Newman
Yeah, absolutely. Well, how lovely to talk to you.
Kristin Juel
Thank you.
Heather Newman
So insightful and you have such a beautiful brain. Talking about all these different ways that you're working with people now, it's awesome. I want to ask you my last question.
Kristin Juel
So, it's over?
Heather Newman
I know, it's been a while too. I was like, oh, my goodness, we're rocking it. Okay. And I love that you and I totally have the same hair color, which I love. But I'm very interested in and I know you are too, in what sparks people and what drives people to be who they are. And we talked a lot about authenticity. And could you talk about maybe a moment or a spark in your life that really seats you in sort of where you are today? Person place thing book poem? Something that -
Kristin Juel
Yeah. Um, one. I mean, well, I kind of already touched on Jane Simon, who I always give credit for seeing what I could do. She was the only one who was like you should work in music. You should. And actually, that's not true. Juice Fitzgerald, who introduced me to Jane was the catalyst for that. So, you know, I could credit them for that, but I feel like the transformation for me the real transformation was - there's a book, it's gonna sound a little cliche, sorry.
Heather Newman
No apologies.
Kristin Juel
It's called The Great Work of Your Life. So, I did cognitive behavioral therapy for like, eight years. Remember, I told you about my mom? I had to unlearn things at a much later part of life. I was trying to figure out why I was so unhappy all the time. And this book, it's many case studies, about people like Jane Goodall and Mahatma Gandhi and all sorts of things. And it breaks down the idea of intrinsic dharma fulfillment.
Heather Newman
Wow.
Kristin Juel
How you identify what that is. And then how you continue to go towards it. And I had always loved music, right? But I could never figure out how to get out of the thing that was making me the money. Right? And that's, I'm a Taurus, I love money. I don't necessarily, you know, obsess on it, but I love having my things. Stuff. A good life, I guess I should say. So I read this book, and it just, I don't know, overwhelmed me with when you ask the question, what's important to me in my core of fiber of my being, and if I was gonna leave this legacy behind what it was going to be? It was through reading that book that I realized, yes, definitely music. I need to be okay with the fact that I might not have what I had before. And it might be a bigger learning curve than even I could admit to. But I'm gonna go for it. And that 10,000 hours thing is actually referenced in the book, where they say, it's literally like, if you're gonna spend 10,000 hours, maybe you should make it something you love. And then it really won't feel like work. And what's more important, which they use this example in the book, which I love, is say you're really interested in recycling, and you go out and you recycle, and you take things and you learn how to recycle and you take it to the plant. And you understand that. If you do that for 10,000 hours, you could not only make money because you're recycling, you can earn something. It's a little bit but it's still there. But you could become an expert at things that will then eventually service cities as they're building. How they recycle, how they way find, all those things. So, there's something to be said for no matter what your passion is, go towards that. I wish that someone had given me this book in my teens and my 20s. I give it everybody. I think I've probably given it - the most present as far as anybody - I give it to people all the time. It's a great book.
Heather Newman
Say the name of it again. Hmm. The name of it again.
Kristin Juel
It's called The Great Work of Your Life. And I think the author's name is Stephen Cole? Stephen Cope. It's really good. I think there are many, many books out there for you know, women who run with the wolves and all the great things that you know, as a strong woman. But this one is just like a flat out anybody who reads it is gonna see themselves, they should see themselves in it. And then you can be like, okay, it's my job to figure out how to keep moving, you know, incrementally towards that goal.
Heather Newman
Yeah. That's awesome. That's great. There's lots of people who have books and sometimes it's people - it's different. Everybody has a different thing, you know.
Kristin Juel
It's a big one, though. And I think if you haven't read it you should read it too, because I think you might enjoy it.
Heather Newman
I'll have to check it out. Yeah, I think Shelly was talking about The Alchemist and I just started that. I haven't read that either and it's been on my Kindle for forever.
Kristin Juel
Yeah, there's an excerpt in the book about Jane Goodall and her mom, and how influenced she was by her own daughter, where she realized that her daughter was so attuned with the world around her that she was raising and trying to feed worms and taking care and nurturing worms. Instead of toys she was with worms. And take them to bed and give them a home and make an environment, and her mom actually said, you know, I think still, until - I don't know if she's still alive, but she would travel with Jane to create the environments that Jane would live in so that she could do her job. Yeah, you know, I thought that was the most unbelievable thing that as a child, a mother could see the potential in someone. So, I think Shelley is another one of those women that sees the potential in her daughter. And, you know, I very much respond to that. My mother certainly saw things in me. So, it's nice to see that, to think Jane Goodall, you know, might not have been Jane Goodall if it weren't for - you know, you never know.
Heather Newman
Yeah, that's super cool. I like really passing the torch and supporting each other, right?
Kristin Juel
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's so good to see your face!
Heather Newman
You too! Thanks for the chat. So good.
Kristin Juel
I'm like Where's our wine?
Heather Newman
I know. It's almost about that time. what do we -
Kristin Juel
I'm like, Let's go get that rose.
Heather Newman
Well, let's wrap up first, then we'll talk. No, that's so good. So, thank you for being on the show, Kristen. It's so great to hear about what you do and what you bring to the world and your origin story and thank you for sharing. Really. That's awesome. So, all right, well everyone that has been another episode of The Mavens Do It Better podcast. Here is to another big beautiful day on this blue spinning sphere. Everybody stays safe, stay healthy and wash those hands. Thanks. The original music on this podcast was created by Jessie Case.